Anyone using a gear reduction starter on their 302 motor? I have a 302/c6 combo. My starter since the day I got the truck has just been a sloppy mess. The starter binds up from time to time and i've tried to shim it with poor results. The truck does start but once warned that starter has a tendency to bind up.

I found a gear reduction starter for $60 on EvilBay with a 10 tooth pinion and it claims it fits the 164 tooth flexplate.

Thoughts? Thanks again!

 

Ford starters don't need shimming unless the flywheel/flexplate is out of spec.
Check to see your starter bolts are tight and the mounting face clean and without burrs.
My starter problems caused one bolt to start to strip and I had to Helicoil it.

No 302 experience, but I have a cheap DB Electric PMGR starter from Ebay and I like it a lot.

 

Thanks for the input. When I first got the truck the jack-wagon prev. owner stripped the bolts. I was going to heli-coil it but i managed to thread in a bolt and put a nut on the back sides and got it tight that way.

As for the shims, I had to use a shim otherwise starting became a worse issue.

Maybe for $60 ill throw in one of the PMGR starters and go from there.

On a related side note, is it possible the old fender-relay may have burned contacts? Im wondering if something along that line that could be causing a power issue or lack of power.

 

If the bolt is not tightly threaded into the casting, that is your issue right there!
A nut on the back side will not locate it exactly centered.

I have soleniods weld themselves but never not pass enough current due to pitted contacts.
The insulation on the starter windings will break down due to too much heat.
If the starter has been binding up that is likely the cause.

If you go to a later style PMGR starter all the load is taken off the fender solenoid anyhow.
Be sure to follow the wiring instructions.
Run a new 12Ga wire from the fender solenoid to the starter mounted solenoid and relocate the starter cable to the battery+

 

Despite the fact I said the threads were stripped they weren't stripped entirely. I matched the bolt size and got one a little longer. The bolts weren't loose. However, that's an interesting concept as if I couldn't have done what I did I might have used a smaller bolt to bolt the starter in thus creating an off-center motor.

I think the whole starting system is shot on this truck. Wish I had the time and money to just replaced the flexplte and starter just to ensure some previous owner didn't screw that up too.

I know this sounds like a stupid question but when a starter is "rebuilt" by a shop they typically only rebuild the pinion gear/bendix spring and maybe cut the commutator right? I mean if the windings were going bad they might test them but from what I can see they didn't do squat.

thanks again,

 

Mine weren't stripped entirely, either.
But the bolt went into the hole sloppy.
The starter should center on the piloting diameter where the body meets the spacer/index plate.

You can't imagine the pressure on that little tooth, turning over the engine.
I know that now that mine is Helicoiled it doesn't make the same noise.

I'm sure they put a new bush in the nose.
I'd imagine they test the windings for resistance and shorts.
There's a big difference between a local auto-electric shop and a mass rebuilder.

 

Yes, local shops can either repair, or rebuild. The option is usually left to the customer.
Mass rebuilders usually replace the normal wear items, and give it a quick test. Sometimes, they simply clean and test the cores, and if they work, they box them up without doing anything further........

 

The local guy will probably take a little more care and pride in his/her work.
They definitely don't want you back at their counter with a bad starter and an attitude.

A piece worker in a big factory where dozens of people toss their completed work into a common bin or line obviously has different priority's.

 

when I brought the truck in to have the starter issue "fixed" my buddy who owns the shop sent the starter out so I would like to assume he used a local rebuilder. For all I know they may have only replaced the pinion gear/nose bushing.

After our back and forth regarding bolt holes you jogged my brain... I don't remember what the index plate on the truck looked like BUT if a previous owner somehow tinkered with that (considering they stripped the starter bolts...) if the index plate is screwey wouldn't that also contribute to mis-alignment?

OK well it's out to pull the starter for me today. I'll try and post pics/results if anyone is interested. I may even heli-coil the bellhouse threads just to eliminate another potential problem area.

Thank all for the input. I'm not a complete moron I just have so much floating around upstairs that sometimes it takes a while for the good ideas to surface.

 

I hope it works for you.

It did for me. (and I had an epic thread about how messed up mine was)

 

Yes indeed. That was something.

 

I'm using a pmgr starter on my 302. I'll tell you , for me at least, it was good medicine. My flexplate is a mess of chipped teeth.

I snagged a starter from a v6 mustang (96 if I remember correctly) and bolted it in and wired it up. A gust of wind barely hit my key and and the truck roared to life. Lol.

I don't know enough to say if it'll help but you can bet your last beer that I'll be swapping a pmgr into anything I buy that doesn't have one.

The starter is practically silent compared to before. It starts quieter and faster now than my 03 Windstar daily driver. It's a little freaky.

Best of luck!

 

If the indexing plate is messed up it will cause the same problem. Ask me how I know.

 

Are you sure you're using the correct starter?

 

so I finally managed to climb underneath and poke around. none of the teeth that I can see on the ring gear or the starter (i pulled the starter out) are in bad shape in fact looking at the ring gear and after cranking it a few times I don't see anything out of sorts.

For the record I pulled the inspection plate and set up a remote start switch so I could see what's going on. The starter engages the flywheel in what looks like proper form however every now and again you hear a noise like it's grinding. I think the grinding is the gearing in the starter not the actual pinion gear. It's a horrible noise.

Just to repeat, I had shimmed the started with a "help" section shim. It helped a little bit but when I replaced the starter this evening I didn't put the shim back in and that's when it's making even more noise.

regarding the index plate, it looks a little banged up but only a little; my best description is that it's bent outward a little bit. I tried looking for replacements but the best I've found it Jegs/Summit Racing for like $80.

I would just bite the bullet and throw in a PMGR starter but I don't want to damage that starter off the bat.

I should also note that when I pulled the starter I bench tested it and it seems to run fine as in no obvious high spots.

Is it possible to "rebuild" my starter. I would prefer to replace the pinion gear/bendix assembly if it's cheap enough. Also, how can I be certain I even have the right starter? For all I know the redneck I bought the truck from DID use the wrong starter. I can't seem to find specs on the starter differences. I know one is longer than the other but again from what I can see with the naked eye everything looks alright.

I'm at my whits end with this starter issue. Everyone bust my ***** to no end for owning a "fixed or repaired daily" or if spelled backwards "driver returns on foot" FORD. Too bad my good old ford has truly never let me down other than stupid b.s. like flat tires or the starter that I'm comfortable saying 100% some previous owner messed up.

OH and just to clarify the bolt situation, the bolt situation is perfectly acceptable (at least I feel it is). There is no slop at all.

Sorry for rambling. I've literally been messing around with the starter since like 2pm. My brain is a bit fried.

Thanks as always...