Transmission clarification help.
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More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: MN
Transmission clarification help.
Hey guys, need some advice on transmissions...
I just picked up an '86 Lariat Super Cab with a 460 with 48k original miles.
You can find more info about it here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...s-weekend.html
When I bought it, I didn't bother to look down at the gear selector on the dash to see a nice OD staring back at me, so unfortunately, it has a 3-speed in it. Not sure if it's a C4 or C6.
I know we can tell transmissions by their bolt pattern on the pan, but I haven't had a chance to crawl underneath and get a picture of it.
Let's just say for giggles that it is a C6... now I originally thought C6's only came in 4 speeds? Do they make a 3 and 4 speed C6?? Could it be a C4 and that's why it's a 3 speed? Is there any kit I can buy to make my 3 speed into a 4 speed? Would an E4OD be better here, rather than a C6? Would an E4OD even work with a non electronically controlled setup? Anyway to make an E4OD mechanical?
I just picked up an '86 Lariat Super Cab with a 460 with 48k original miles.
You can find more info about it here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...s-weekend.html
When I bought it, I didn't bother to look down at the gear selector on the dash to see a nice OD staring back at me, so unfortunately, it has a 3-speed in it. Not sure if it's a C4 or C6.
I know we can tell transmissions by their bolt pattern on the pan, but I haven't had a chance to crawl underneath and get a picture of it.
Let's just say for giggles that it is a C6... now I originally thought C6's only came in 4 speeds? Do they make a 3 and 4 speed C6?? Could it be a C4 and that's why it's a 3 speed? Is there any kit I can buy to make my 3 speed into a 4 speed? Would an E4OD be better here, rather than a C6? Would an E4OD even work with a non electronically controlled setup? Anyway to make an E4OD mechanical?
Thread Starter
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More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 709
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From: MN
Would a C5 or C4 be a 4-speed then? What mechanical 4-speed transmission should I get that can tow heavy loads? Would that be a C5?
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
The C4 C5 C6 are all 3-speed automatics, I would recommend the C6 if you're interested in towing and hauling (i.e. using the truck as a truck and not a mall crawler).
Manual 4-speed transmission... I have the Borg Warner T18, its counterpart is a New Process 435... these are manual 4-speed transmissions and don't have an overdrive gear but rather a granny first gear that's generally used only when towing or hauling to get moving. These are both decent transmissions but conversion from automatic to manual isn't for the uninitiated.....
Manual 4-speed transmission... I have the Borg Warner T18, its counterpart is a New Process 435... these are manual 4-speed transmissions and don't have an overdrive gear but rather a granny first gear that's generally used only when towing or hauling to get moving. These are both decent transmissions but conversion from automatic to manual isn't for the uninitiated.....
Thread Starter
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More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 709
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From: MN
The C4 C5 C6 are all 3-speed automatics, I would recommend the C6 if you're interested in towing and hauling (i.e. using the truck as a truck and not a mall crawler).
Manual 4-speed transmission... I have the Borg Warner T18, its counterpart is a New Process 435... these are manual 4-speed transmissions and don't have an overdrive gear but rather a granny first gear that's generally used only when towing or hauling to get moving. These are both decent transmissions but conversion from automatic to manual isn't for the uninitiated.....
Manual 4-speed transmission... I have the Borg Warner T18, its counterpart is a New Process 435... these are manual 4-speed transmissions and don't have an overdrive gear but rather a granny first gear that's generally used only when towing or hauling to get moving. These are both decent transmissions but conversion from automatic to manual isn't for the uninitiated.....
Do you have a link for that kit for the E4OD?
Just because I want to get better gas mileage doesn't mean it'll be a mall crawler
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
There was something known as the AOD which was a mechanical-only overdrive automatic transmission but I'm not sure it was ever built for the 460's bellhousing pattern, do some homework there.
You will come across people saying they burn up - yes, they do, if you abuse them and try to use the OD gear while towing/hauling.
For the E40D controllers, I couldn't remember the links so I just googled "e40d controller" and found:
Baumann Electronic Controls
E4OD and 4R100E Transmission FAQs - Baumann Electronic Controls, LLC
There are other guys here who know this stuff lots better than me, maybe they'll chime in.
As for gas mileage, buy a Toyota Corolla if you want that; the pickup truck has always been the poster child for conspicuous consumption of mid-east crude oil, and the 460 with the C6 certainly partakes there.
You will come across people saying they burn up - yes, they do, if you abuse them and try to use the OD gear while towing/hauling.
For the E40D controllers, I couldn't remember the links so I just googled "e40d controller" and found:
Baumann Electronic Controls
E4OD and 4R100E Transmission FAQs - Baumann Electronic Controls, LLC
There are other guys here who know this stuff lots better than me, maybe they'll chime in.
As for gas mileage, buy a Toyota Corolla if you want that; the pickup truck has always been the poster child for conspicuous consumption of mid-east crude oil, and the 460 with the C6 certainly partakes there.
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More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 709
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From: MN
I find it a little unfair that the 87-97 trucks all got 4 speed autos, and we're stuck with 3-speeds 
.
I do have a nice Fusion to drive around daily, but when the mood strikes me, I would like to drive the truck around and enjoy it.
If anyone has any experience with automatic 4 speeds out there, that can work with a carb'd 460...please feel free to chime in, that'd be great!
.I do have a nice Fusion to drive around daily, but when the mood strikes me, I would like to drive the truck around and enjoy it.
If anyone has any experience with automatic 4 speeds out there, that can work with a carb'd 460...please feel free to chime in, that'd be great!
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
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From: EXTREME southwest CT
There is no "mechanical" overdrive automatic for the Lima bell pattern.
The E4OD is the overdrive version of a C6.
Baumann is now called U.S. Shift.
You're looking at close to $700 for all the controller stuff and sensors you need.
(on top of the E4OD, driveshaft work etc...)
You also need to make sure it has provision for a speedometer cable and gear.
... I forget what year that changed. ('92?)
At any rate you're WELL over a grand PLUS your time, running around etc..
For a couple of mpg, ONLY when on the highway with your foot out of it.
Plus, you don't want to tow any real weight in OD.
It will always be hunting and burn up quick.
So, how many MILD highway miles would you be putting on your truck, without a trailer?
Then figure only those miles at about a 2 mpg improvement.
You can buy 250 gallons of gas at $4, for $1000.
It would likely take you forever - if you value your time, and the gas running around for parts at ZERO- to realize any gain.
You say this isn't your DD.
It IS a gigantic pig with one of the biggest engines ever commonly produced.
I've been daily driving a carbureted 460 since 1988.
Get used to it, or sell it on.
The E4OD is the overdrive version of a C6.
Baumann is now called U.S. Shift.
You're looking at close to $700 for all the controller stuff and sensors you need.
(on top of the E4OD, driveshaft work etc...)
You also need to make sure it has provision for a speedometer cable and gear.
... I forget what year that changed. ('92?)
At any rate you're WELL over a grand PLUS your time, running around etc..
For a couple of mpg, ONLY when on the highway with your foot out of it.
Plus, you don't want to tow any real weight in OD.
It will always be hunting and burn up quick.
So, how many MILD highway miles would you be putting on your truck, without a trailer?
Then figure only those miles at about a 2 mpg improvement.
You can buy 250 gallons of gas at $4, for $1000.
It would likely take you forever - if you value your time, and the gas running around for parts at ZERO- to realize any gain.
You say this isn't your DD.
It IS a gigantic pig with one of the biggest engines ever commonly produced.
I've been daily driving a carbureted 460 since 1988.
Get used to it, or sell it on.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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C5: Basically a C4 with a lockup torque converter, no od.
Both are small motor, small vehicle transmissions as originally designed. Even in beefed form, neither would be suitable for your vehicle.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 69
From: New Zealand
That being the case, you are probably no worse off with the C6 then IMHO.
They are more durable than an E4OD, & less expensive to rebuild.
Depending on your axle gearing & towed weight, you would probably tow in 3rd with an E4OD anyway.
They are more durable than an E4OD, & less expensive to rebuild.
Depending on your axle gearing & towed weight, you would probably tow in 3rd with an E4OD anyway.
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More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: MN
My guess would probably be in the 8-10 mpg average range. Haven't really had a chance to top the tanks off and give it a run through yet.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Algona,WA
That's what I get with my 7700 GVWR 351W C6 F250. I did some work recently and got it up to 10.62 and hopefully this tank it'll be a little higher.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: MN
Since then, family has come into the picture and when I go from a 4 cylinder Fusion to a 460 in a truck weighing in over 6,000 lbs...I'm used to better mileage ya know?
But i've since woke up and realized that it is what it is, and to simply be thankful i'm able to have it in the first place.