setting timing........
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
setting timing........
Guys, I don't understand this one tooth off stuff. You can stab the dizzy in any direction you want and then just rotate the housing to line it back up. Course the vacuum can will hit the engine if it's too far off from origional. As far as the rotor pointing to the correct tower, that relationship is established between the breaker cam and the rotor which is one solid piece. The only other factor is the relationship between the pickup and the breaker cam. Maybe the pickup is not exactly where it should be, is there any adjustment there? It's called phasing the rotor. There is a better way to check it but you waste a dizzy cap. Drill a hole next to any tower so you can see the rotor tip as it passes by. Hook up a timing light to that tower and run the engine. Point the light into the hole and watch the rotor position when the light fires. That's your rotor phasing.
Barry
Here's an article on installing the Pertronix:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ix/index.shtml
Barry
Here's an article on installing the Pertronix:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ix/index.shtml
Last edited by BB; Jul 9, 2003 at 04:45 PM.
Junior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: Bothell, WA
setting timing........
I don't remember there being any way to get the Pertronix in wrong. I put mine in about a month ago, from what I remember there is a pin in the base of the Pertronix that locates in a hole in the distributor, and a single screw that secures it. I don't think you could install it too far around the axis of rotation one way or the other.
The question isn't why it appears to idle at 20 BTDC, the question is why 20 BTDC appears to be indicated, when it clearly can't be. I just don't think it would idle smoothly or pull at all if it was really running at 20 BTDC.
The pointer finger that lines up against the timing mark is held to the timing chain cover by two bolts, I wonder if it has been wrongly installed? Perhaps installed with the lower hole on the upper bolt, thus putting it too far around the balancer?
It's a good head scratcher.
Kevin
The question isn't why it appears to idle at 20 BTDC, the question is why 20 BTDC appears to be indicated, when it clearly can't be. I just don't think it would idle smoothly or pull at all if it was really running at 20 BTDC.
The pointer finger that lines up against the timing mark is held to the timing chain cover by two bolts, I wonder if it has been wrongly installed? Perhaps installed with the lower hole on the upper bolt, thus putting it too far around the balancer?
It's a good head scratcher.
Kevin
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Watauga TEXAS
setting timing........
The pointer finger that lines up against the timing mark is held to the timing chain cover by two bolts...
Are you thinking about a Ch#vy? All of my Effies have had the timing cover with the pointer "welded" or tacked on from the factory. You can't remove it from the cover.
Joe
Are you thinking about a Ch#vy? All of my Effies have had the timing cover with the pointer "welded" or tacked on from the factory. You can't remove it from the cover.
Joe
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
setting timing........
Hi Joe, the pointer is removable on the FE.
I know it’s been mentioned before but the damper could have slipped, not too uncommon on these FE’s. Buy one of those piston stops that screw into the spark plug hole. Screw it onto #1 and rotate the engine by hand until it hits the stop. Make a mark on the damper where the pointer is. Now rotate it the other direction until it hits the stop again and make another mark on the damper. You will have two marks now and TDC is exactly in the middle of the two marks. Compare it to the damper marking of TDC, if it’s not right on you need a new damper.
I know it’s been mentioned before but the damper could have slipped, not too uncommon on these FE’s. Buy one of those piston stops that screw into the spark plug hole. Screw it onto #1 and rotate the engine by hand until it hits the stop. Make a mark on the damper where the pointer is. Now rotate it the other direction until it hits the stop again and make another mark on the damper. You will have two marks now and TDC is exactly in the middle of the two marks. Compare it to the damper marking of TDC, if it’s not right on you need a new damper.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Watauga TEXAS
setting timing........
That's not what mine looks like- that one looks like it's cast? Mine is stamped steel and the pointer is non-removable. I just went out to make sure. Maybe mine is an early model that was installed by the previous owner.
Joe
Joe
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Watauga TEXAS
setting timing........
No problem, partner-
I have never seen the other kind of cover. I had a '72 model and it was the same way. I'm sure that engine had also been scabbed together before I got it.
Joe
I have never seen the other kind of cover. I had a '72 model and it was the same way. I'm sure that engine had also been scabbed together before I got it.
Joe
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Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,622
Likes: 0
From: nevada
setting timing........
My 390 timing isn't at 8 either, but truck runs great. One thing about plug gap, I use Pertronix too, have mine at .045 with an Accel coil and some fat plug wires. You might trade that old stock coil out with something a little hotter and make some bigger (longer) spark.
New User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Bend, OR.
setting timing........
Well I hope I don't get thrown out of here, I'm not trying to sell anybody anything and think I can help out around here. I'm pretty sure this is the real problem and the answer for you. I went through this same exact scenario on my '67 SW F100 390. You need to go to my site and read the complete saga about the Pertronix that I went through to gather all the information to make it run right. There is a RIGHT way to hook up a Pertronix.
In short the Pertronix HAS to be fed 12 volts. The instructions are unclear and can easily be interpreted wrong. The unit comes with a red and black wire with a ring connector crimped on the end of each which would make sense that those go directly to the coil - they don't. After installing my spiffy new Pertronix like that the engine wouldn't start right, it had to be timed way up at idle to stay running etc.. You need to feed a new 12 volt wire from the back of the ignition switch to feed the red wire and the problem will dissapear. The diagram is for a vintage mustang but still applies to the vintage trucks. OK, so shoot me, here's the site. Go to "Tech Tips" in the left links column and then click on "How to Install a Pertronix Ignitor". www.vintage-automotive.com
In short the Pertronix HAS to be fed 12 volts. The instructions are unclear and can easily be interpreted wrong. The unit comes with a red and black wire with a ring connector crimped on the end of each which would make sense that those go directly to the coil - they don't. After installing my spiffy new Pertronix like that the engine wouldn't start right, it had to be timed way up at idle to stay running etc.. You need to feed a new 12 volt wire from the back of the ignition switch to feed the red wire and the problem will dissapear. The diagram is for a vintage mustang but still applies to the vintage trucks. OK, so shoot me, here's the site. Go to "Tech Tips" in the left links column and then click on "How to Install a Pertronix Ignitor". www.vintage-automotive.com
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
setting timing........
That's a good point, I've always mentioned this here and on other sites but some folks just don't buy it, noticed Super Ford got it wrong. Thanks for the reference to the horse's mouth.
Barry
Barry
Last edited by BB; Jul 12, 2003 at 04:20 PM.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Watauga TEXAS
setting timing........
That brings up an interesting point- I use the Crane XR700 system and am experiencing the same thing. You guys think that would also apply?
http://64.90.9.168/cranecams/pdf/90002000a.pdf
Scroll down and see the diagram for the basic hookup. What they show is the power wire hooked to the positive side of the coil which would be reduced voltage due to the resistor. You guys think it should be hooked up to a 12V supply?
Joe
http://64.90.9.168/cranecams/pdf/90002000a.pdf
Scroll down and see the diagram for the basic hookup. What they show is the power wire hooked to the positive side of the coil which would be reduced voltage due to the resistor. You guys think it should be hooked up to a 12V supply?
Joe
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
setting timing........
Hmmm, this puker won't pull up pdf's.
It's my understanding that the XR700 needs a ballast or resistor to limit current to the coil but have also read that the unit operates from 8 - 18 volts.
Will try another puker.
It's my understanding that the XR700 needs a ballast or resistor to limit current to the coil but have also read that the unit operates from 8 - 18 volts.
Will try another puker.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 884
Likes: 13
From: Bassett Virginia
setting timing........
Out of curiousity, I check the voltage on my truck. I turned the key to the "on" position and checked the voltage at the wire going into the distributor, or the Red wire on the Pertronix unit. It read 12 volts. I have mine set up like the directions said, black wire to the "-" side and the red wire and the wire coming from the ignition switch hooked to the "+" side of the coil.