EFI 429 question
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 4
From: Quemado, New Mexico
EFI 429 question
Just trying to get some knowledge for my own curiosity. I know that at some point, the EFI 460 switched back to the "pre-smog" timing set, I am wondering if they did something similar when 429 HD was similarly switched over to EFI? And what heads did these things get? Or are there different heads depending on year, like the 460? Thanks in advance!
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 811
Likes: 1
From: West Central Southern MN
I did a little digging myself to appease my curiosity. I would assume the timing went back to straight up, but not sure when. 429's were not EFI until ~92 give or take a year. If you have the timing gears exposed, you can tell if they are straight up by looking at the crank gear. If the dot is directly lined up with a tooth, it is straight up. If you can see that it is off center of the tooth, it is probably retarded.
As far as the heads go I don't know anything unless they are the same as 460 heads. I know they did have 4v heads for a while, but not sure which years.
Why not put 460's in the HD trucks? I don't get it...
As far as the heads go I don't know anything unless they are the same as 460 heads. I know they did have 4v heads for a while, but not sure which years.
Why not put 460's in the HD trucks? I don't get it...
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 4
From: Quemado, New Mexico
I did a little digging myself to appease my curiosity. I would assume the timing went back to straight up, but not sure when. 429's were not EFI until ~92 give or take a year. If you have the timing gears exposed, you can tell if they are straight up by looking at the crank gear. If the dot is directly lined up with a tooth, it is straight up. If you can see that it is off center of the tooth, it is probably retarded.
As far as the heads go I don't know anything unless they are the same as 460 heads. I know they did have 4v heads for a while, but not sure which years.
Why not put 460's in the HD trucks? I don't get it...
As far as the heads go I don't know anything unless they are the same as 460 heads. I know they did have 4v heads for a while, but not sure which years.
Why not put 460's in the HD trucks? I don't get it...
People have dropped 460's into HD trucks, but it requires a little work, since the good 460s are external balance, 370 and 429 are internal. Why didn't Ford do it? Probably didn't want to give the up-and-coming diesels too much competition...
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Straight up roller timing sets came back to the 460 with EFI for the '88 model year.
All D9TE blocks were equipped with four barrel carbs.
Only some '70's vehicles had 2 barrel carbs (and some came with an oddball spreadbore!)
E7TE's were the first EFI 460 heads.
They were revised in 1993 with the F3TE casting number.
I'm sorry, I can't give you much about variations of the big snout 429's found in medium duty trucks.
That massive crank end and the shorter stroke are the main reasons for using the governed 429 in the larger trucks.
429 has less piston speed for the same rev's while pressed against the governed redline for hours on end.
All D9TE blocks were equipped with four barrel carbs.
Only some '70's vehicles had 2 barrel carbs (and some came with an oddball spreadbore!)
E7TE's were the first EFI 460 heads.
They were revised in 1993 with the F3TE casting number.
I'm sorry, I can't give you much about variations of the big snout 429's found in medium duty trucks.
That massive crank end and the shorter stroke are the main reasons for using the governed 429 in the larger trucks.
429 has less piston speed for the same rev's while pressed against the governed redline for hours on end.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 811
Likes: 1
From: West Central Southern MN
The heads weren't 4v, the 4v on the fender badge meant a 4-barrel carburetor. 370s are the same way, both also came with 2-barrel carb. People have dropped 460's into HD trucks, but it requires a little work, since the good 460s are external balance, 370 and 429 are internal. Why didn't Ford do it? Probably didn't want to give the up-and-coming diesels too much competition...
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Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 4
From: Quemado, New Mexico
Straight up roller timing sets came back to the 460 with EFI for the '88 model year.
All D9TE blocks were equipped with four barrel carbs.
Only some '70's cars had 2 barrel carbs (and some came with an oddball spreadbore!)
E7TE's were the first EFI 460 heads.
They were revised in 1993 with the F3TE casting number.
I'm sorry, I can't give you much about variations of the big snout 429's found in medium duty trucks.
That massive crank end and the shorter stroke are the main reasons for using the governed 429 in the larger trucks.
429 has less piston speed for the same rev's while pressed against the governed redline for hours on end.
All D9TE blocks were equipped with four barrel carbs.
Only some '70's cars had 2 barrel carbs (and some came with an oddball spreadbore!)
E7TE's were the first EFI 460 heads.
They were revised in 1993 with the F3TE casting number.
I'm sorry, I can't give you much about variations of the big snout 429's found in medium duty trucks.
That massive crank end and the shorter stroke are the main reasons for using the governed 429 in the larger trucks.
429 has less piston speed for the same rev's while pressed against the governed redline for hours on end.
Just wondering, did the 87 Cali trucks with EFI have straight up timing, or was it a universal 88 thing?
cbakker, yeah, lots of people see 4v fender badges and think 4-valve, you're not the first! I had a friend who swore up and down he had 4v heads on his 370, right up until we rebuilt it, then he finally believed me! Oh the good old days...
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
As far as I know all EFI 460 trucks had straight up timing sets.
The SD trucks and the very late (1996-'97)Cali MAF trucks.
There are definitely different heads for stationary 429 & 460 industrial/marine engines.
I'm not sure about engines that had to meet Federal emissions regulations for road use.
RHP was offering updated D3 style iron castings with better flowing exhaust ports.
RHPD3Index
What has you interested in the EFI 429's Moses?
The SD trucks and the very late (1996-'97)Cali MAF trucks.
There are definitely different heads for stationary 429 & 460 industrial/marine engines.
I'm not sure about engines that had to meet Federal emissions regulations for road use.
RHP was offering updated D3 style iron castings with better flowing exhaust ports.
RHPD3Index
What has you interested in the EFI 429's Moses?
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 4
From: Quemado, New Mexico
Jim, I was thinking that if someone came across a carbed 370 or 429 and lived somewhere that doesn't strictly enforce emissions on old crap, they could use the same method for easy power us 460 guys enjoy, and the only way it would work is if the EFI 429's had straight up timing like the EFI 460s, since the HD engines have the big snout. I'm always thinking of stuff like this, just for curiosity. Amazing as much as I know about these things I come here and still learn more stuff! I don't know it all, and have been schooled a couple times here. And I greatly appreciate it! I'd rather someone correct me when I'm wrong than propagate falsehoods!
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 108
Likes: 1
From: Carrington, North Dakota
so the HD 429 wouldnt necessarily be a good choice if i wanted to take one from a 96 efi f700 and put it into a 79 f150?
I guess i could always swap rotating assemblys. how well do the stock efi heads flow? i was just going to hop over to pricemotorsports and buy their carb adapter to switch from efi to carb (mainly because the engine didnt come with the ecm or harness..)
I guess i could always swap rotating assemblys. how well do the stock efi heads flow? i was just going to hop over to pricemotorsports and buy their carb adapter to switch from efi to carb (mainly because the engine didnt come with the ecm or harness..)
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 4
From: Quemado, New Mexico
And strictly speaking, it IS possible to run internal balance on a D9TE block/460 combo, but you have to do some machine work or throw some Mallory in the crank. Not practical for most, but doable if needed.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
An internal balanced crank is already balanced.
You don't need to add heavy metal.
But you do have to clearance the longer D9 cylinder bores in order to clear those counterweights.
The long snout F700 EFI engine that Taylor was talking about is DEFINITELY not going to fit in an F150.
You don't need to add heavy metal.
But you do have to clearance the longer D9 cylinder bores in order to clear those counterweights.
The long snout F700 EFI engine that Taylor was talking about is DEFINITELY not going to fit in an F150.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 4
From: Quemado, New Mexico
A 460 would be better anyway. More cubes=more power. Plus, fewer hassles getting stuff to work, more parts, etc.
I know that large volume, production-spec internally balanced engines don't need metal to balance out, but sometimes high performance engines use heavy metal to balance out. And theoretically you CAN balance an externally balanced engine with heavy metal in the counterweights, it's just not cost effective for a large volume production engine because Mallory gets expensive. But, the 5.8 liter Trinity engine recently used by Ford used heavy metal in the 5.4 liter crank to achieve proper balance because the larger bores meant heavier pistons and there was no way to make the counterweights larger. But this was a low volume engine, so it was acceptable to balance them this way.
You are correct, to run internal balance on the D9TE block with a 460, the block needs to be clearanced for the production internal balance crank. All I was saying is that the stock external balance crank COULD be balanced out with heavy metal in the counterweights, which would balance the engine out internally. With plenty of external balance parts, there isn't much reason to do so, but it CAN be done. Ford already did, just not on the high volume 460.
I know that large volume, production-spec internally balanced engines don't need metal to balance out, but sometimes high performance engines use heavy metal to balance out. And theoretically you CAN balance an externally balanced engine with heavy metal in the counterweights, it's just not cost effective for a large volume production engine because Mallory gets expensive. But, the 5.8 liter Trinity engine recently used by Ford used heavy metal in the 5.4 liter crank to achieve proper balance because the larger bores meant heavier pistons and there was no way to make the counterweights larger. But this was a low volume engine, so it was acceptable to balance them this way.
You are correct, to run internal balance on the D9TE block with a 460, the block needs to be clearanced for the production internal balance crank. All I was saying is that the stock external balance crank COULD be balanced out with heavy metal in the counterweights, which would balance the engine out internally. With plenty of external balance parts, there isn't much reason to do so, but it CAN be done. Ford already did, just not on the high volume 460.