DISC BRAKES NEED POWER????
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Freshman User
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From: Stilwell Kansas
DISC BRAKES NEED POWER????
Has anyone installed 4 wheel discs on their F100? If so, are power brakes necessary or will a disc brake master cylinder suffice? I see LMC Truck has both options and allows you to use the existing pedal assembly. Also is there another alternative to LMC?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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From: Fresno, California
Hotshot
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From: Burbank, WA
Have you ever driven a car without power brakes? There's a huge difference in the feel of power vs. no power brakes.
New User
Joined: Dec 2013
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From: Sweden
My 2 cents, based on european cars.
A standard car with disc brakes which has the booster disabled becomes VERY hard to brake.
The booster typically amplifies the foot applied brake force three to five times.
So , yes, you need a booster.
Ola
A standard car with disc brakes which has the booster disabled becomes VERY hard to brake.
The booster typically amplifies the foot applied brake force three to five times.
So , yes, you need a booster.
Ola
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From: Fresno, California
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Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2013
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From: in a barn
Not true. Normally a car with power brakes will have a different pedal ratio than manual brakes. Disable the booster in a power brake car and the braking will be terrible because the pedal ratio is not correct and you are trying to push the power brake diaphragm as well as the master.
Of course power brakes take less effort and I prefer power brakes, but it is not a must have if the system is designed correctly.
Just about every car I had pre 1973 came with manual brakes standard and power was an option. Other than drum brake fade the brakes stopped the car just fine.
I converted many novas, camaros, and chevelles to power brakes, chevy used to have different pin holes in the brake pedal to change the pedal ratio between manual and power.
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From: Sweden (Fagersta)
If one design a brake system their are a lot more than just, pedal ratio, master cylinder size, power or not, to take into acount. Likedisc size front and rear, tire size are the most important parameter, brake torque distribution should be matched to the. vehicle Weight distribution during braking ie the weight transfere during braking, to figure that out you need the distance between front and rear axel and the vehicles centre of gravity height from the ground.
I have an excel sheet where one can design a complete brake system taking all these (and a few more) into account.
And NO a brake system does not need a booster if it is designed without one.
I have an excel sheet where one can design a complete brake system taking all these (and a few more) into account.
And NO a brake system does not need a booster if it is designed without one.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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From: Sweden
Brake booster
Quote
Just about every car I had pre 1973 came with manual brakes standard and power was an option. Other than drum brake fade the brakes stopped the car just fine. UInquote
I agree that drum brakes work just fine without a brake servo. This is because the front drums usually have the two brake shoes individually pivoted in a way that gives mechanical assist thru friction force that applies an assisting outward pressure on the brake shoes. The rear drum brakes are pivoted on the same point and thus have one brakeshoe binding on in forward, and one in reverse.
With disc brakes there is no built in mechanical " amplification" and , at least on european cars, which is all that I know, there is a brake booster even on a small, light disc brake car. Like my VW Polo 2009, 80 HP and 1200 kilos.
Ola
Just about every car I had pre 1973 came with manual brakes standard and power was an option. Other than drum brake fade the brakes stopped the car just fine. UInquote
I agree that drum brakes work just fine without a brake servo. This is because the front drums usually have the two brake shoes individually pivoted in a way that gives mechanical assist thru friction force that applies an assisting outward pressure on the brake shoes. The rear drum brakes are pivoted on the same point and thus have one brakeshoe binding on in forward, and one in reverse.
With disc brakes there is no built in mechanical " amplification" and , at least on european cars, which is all that I know, there is a brake booster even on a small, light disc brake car. Like my VW Polo 2009, 80 HP and 1200 kilos.
Ola
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Freshman User
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From: Stilwell Kansas
Well I think I have been talked into power brakes. So short of spending $600 from LMC on a powerbrake booster/master cylinder, has anyone used anything different? There are a lot of after market universal ones out there, but I don't have any experience with them. Thoughts?
Cargo Master
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From: in a barn
If one design a brake system their are a lot more than just, pedal ratio, master cylinder size, power or not, to take into acount. Likedisc size front and rear, tire size are the most important parameter, brake torque distribution should be matched to the. vehicle Weight distribution during braking ie the weight transfere during braking, to figure that out you need the distance between front and rear axel and the vehicles centre of gravity height from the ground.
I have an excel sheet where one can design a complete brake system taking all these (and a few more) into account.
And NO a brake system does not need a booster if it is designed without one.
I have an excel sheet where one can design a complete brake system taking all these (and a few more) into account.
And NO a brake system does not need a booster if it is designed without one.
True, or you do it like I do and let the OEM do the engineering for you. I use parts from similar weight and size vehicles and tune from there. Works for me, all my cars stop as they should.
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From: Sweden (Fagersta)
You are absolutley right! But as soon as one starts to take parts from different sources or "universal" parts, one should really know what they are doing!