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Jan 1, 2014 | 08:41 PM

#16

Tom

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From: Isanti, MN

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjc transport

because as Big Al said above, car salesmen are like politicians. they cannot tell the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winginit

Would it be smart to wait till after you get financed to start trying to knock down the price? My thinking would be once they know the bank will give me the loan and they see a roll of $100 bills for a down payment. Now the ball is in my corner. The only thing stopping me from signing is the price. I am all for every one making money i just don't want to get raped.

I don't think it makes much difference to be honest. Most dealers operate under the assumption that you can afford what you are looking to purchase, which is why they are willing to spend so much time with you before getting financed. If you walked away and they didn't pitch a better offer then you aren't getting raped on the deal. There is tremendous pressure to make the sale TODAY, and they aren't going to let you walk away without at least hearing a good offer from them.

If you want a good idea of what others are paying check out Hassle-free car-buying experience from a nationwide network of certified dealers. - TrueCar. You can build and price your truck and see a target sale price to reach. My guess is that the offer you walked away from is right in the ballpark.

Jan 1, 2014 | 09:09 PM

#17

winginit

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From: SOUTHBURY CT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

I have a big problem with that statement because the same is often said of military recruiters. There are some who compromise their values to make the "sale", and there are some like myself who refuse to lower themselves to that. I've dealt with over a dozen car salesmen over the last ten years, and I'm knowledgeable enough to spot a liar from 30 feet. Just like any other line of work you find good folks and bad folks.

I don't think it makes much difference to be honest. Most dealers operate under the assumption that you can afford what you are looking to purchase, which is why they are willing to spend so much time with you before getting financed. If you walked away and they didn't pitch a better offer then you aren't getting raped on the deal. There is tremendous pressure to make the sale TODAY, and they aren't going to let you walk away without at least hearing a good offer from them.

If you want a good idea of what others are paying check out Hassle-free car-buying experience from a nationwide network of certified dealers. - TrueCar. You can build and price your truck and see a target sale price to reach. My guess is that the offer you walked away from is right in the ballpark.

More good info.

I walked away from the first one more on principal. They said if i showed up they were going to make me a huge deal. I got squat. ( I drove 2 hours to this place and they new it was a long drive for me ) I would not ever go back there now,not very smart on them. I am not mad about it they are people and have to make a living but they lost my trust. If he said i can`t promise you anything but lets talk and we made no deal that is fine.

today i found the same truck 2014 black metallic lariat sc at another dealer. still working the deal. Will

Jan 1, 2014 | 09:12 PM

#18

MDSuperDuty

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Tell ya what. Whenever I've purchased a vehicle from a dealer (all have been used trucks tho) I come up with a price I want to pay based on truck valuing sites and the dealers price. Then I figure new york state sales tax and come in with a price and tell them "This price including tax, title, registration, etc.....". I've either gotten what I want or come within a couple hundred. Works for me. They make some bucks and I feel good about my purchase.

New is different I guess. Never been there.

Then of course some internet forum jockey will come along saying that they could've got a better deal and you've overpaid.

Jan 1, 2014 | 09:16 PM

#19

Pikachu

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Joined: Jun 2004

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From: Amarillo, TEXAS!

The fact you drove two hours makes them believe they have you by the short hairs and you aren't leaving without buying the truck.

Jan 1, 2014 | 09:33 PM

#20

winginit

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From: SOUTHBURY CT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikachu

The fact you drove two hours makes them believe they have you by the short hairs and you aren't leaving without buying the truck.

well they were wrong, I left! lol... I drove there because that was a really nice truck.

But i found another one 18 miles from home just like it last night online i hope to be getting it in the morning. Will

Jan 1, 2014 | 10:25 PM

#21

tgreening

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From: Ohio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikachu

In a nutshell, holdback is an amount the dealer gets back from the manufacturer on each vehicle sold if they meet certain sales numbers. It's like getting an additional discount off the price on the invoice and varies by vehicle. If they miss their numbers, they're on the hook for the full amount of the invoice, and stand to lose a lot of money.

To the best of my knowledge the holdback has nothing to do with sales numbers. Dealer holdback is essentially a credit from the manufacturer to the dealer to cover his finance costs on the vehicle for about the first 90 days. If he sells the car the day it hits the lot, all that money is basically profit on top of whatever else he manages to squeeze out. If it sits on the lot 90 days or more it's all pretty much gone and finance charges start eating into whatever profit margin he may have left.

Hold back is separate from any other incentives or rebates that the manufacturer may offer. For the big 3 it used be somewhere around 2-3% of invoice, but I haven't a clue what it is these days. Last time I bought a new truck was in 2000 and that was the last time I did any research on the issue of hold backs, rebates, and incentives.

Jan 1, 2014 | 10:40 PM

#22

winginit

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From: SOUTHBURY CT

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgreening

More great info, makes sense and i understand .

Then would it be that a buyer has a better chance at getting a bigger discount on a vehicle that just arrived because if they sell it fast my get more hold back ?

Is the end of the month really the best time to buy?
from my experiences i don't notice anything different ,just another way to get you to sit at the desk!! Will

Jan 2, 2014 | 06:05 AM

#23

MDSuperDuty

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Quote:

Originally Posted by winginit

Is the end of the month really the best time to buy?

I've always thought so. Everyone I believe gets monthly bonuses for making sales goals even the sales managers for moving enough volume. But that is total speculation on my part. I've found better "dealing" during end of the month times vs 1st of the month.

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Jan 2, 2014 | 06:28 AM

#24

djm1204

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From: Dunnellon, Fl

A couple of comments here –

First – the very best time to purchase a NEW vehicle is early in the day on the last selling day of the month. Dealers and salespeople receive bonuses if they meet certain sales goals for the month. The dealership trigger to receive the bonus might be 150 vehicles while an individual salesman’s trigger might be 10 vehicles sold in the month. The bonus for a salesman might be an extra $ 75.00 per vehicle for each vehicle he sells if he sells 10 or more vehicles in the month. So – the last day of the month – early in the day – the salesman has already sold 9 vehicles that month – he is very eager to sell his 10th vehicle because it hits his trigger number and activates his bonus that applies to every vehicle he has sold that month so he will receive an additional $750.00 this month if he sells that 10th vehicle. So he is eager to do whatever he can to sell you that vehicle – if his normal commission on a new vehicle sold is around $250.00 per vehicle he is willing to – if you negotiate hard enough – to give up his $250.00 commission on the sale of the 10th vehicle because he know he will get the $750.00 bonus money.

The same applies to the dealership – different numbers – different triggers – at the start of the last selling day of the month – they have sold 147 vehicles – they will work with salesmen and customers to get those last 3 vehicles sold so they hit their trigger and get the bonuses from the manufacturer. If the Dealership bonus is $150.00 per car we are talking about a bonus of $22,500.00 for the dealership. That is a lot of money and they will do almost anything to get the sale done.

Early in the day is important – because once the dealership has hit it’s trigger – the dealership management would like all sales to stop and be credited to the next month – so they are not bending over backwards to complete a deal – they would rather all sales be credited to the next month and start counting towards the following month’s sales target number. So even though a salesman still needs his 10th sale – the salesman might be willing to make the deal of the year – but the dealership is not.
I sold trucks for a while – at a GMC dealership – the above are actual trigger & bonus numbers. I actually saw a guy get a great deal on a pickup truck in the morning – go tell his friends what a great deal he got – the friend came in later in the day to buy an exact duplicate – it was $1800.00 more – dealer would not budge. The original friend had made the 150th vehicle purchase.

As they say it’s all about timing !

NEVER EVER tell the dealership how much you are willing to spend or negotiate monthly payments. They will confuse the daylights out of you and make more money off of you by selling you on the price or payment rather than the vehicle.
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Last edited by djm1204; Jan 2, 2014 at 06:31 AM. Reason: typo - spelling

Jan 2, 2014 | 06:42 AM

#25

LMS Residential

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From: Chicago and Mt Carroll IL

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDSuperDuty

If you're not a strong willed person they make you feel like you can't leave. But absolutely you're in control. I remember working at a place selling fitness equipment. I'm talking top of the line stuff like $7,000-$10,000 treadmills, etc.... The sales trainer told us if we ever ran into price objections from customers to attack them with the "Well is this something you cannot afford?". I've never seen people whip out credit cards or sign up for financing faster. I can only imagine what happens at a dealership.

When I purchased my current truck the sales manager and I were toe to toe kind of yelling at each other. I couldn't believe it. He used the "Can you just not afford it?" line on me!!! Knowing that tactic I stood up, gave him a rundown of sales techniques, and then reamed him out for calling me out on such a thing. People in the other sales cubicles were turning around looking because of how loud it got. I got the truck for what I wanted but I couldn't believe how far this guy took it. The truck was sitting in the lot for 7 months (used) so I'm sure the pressure was in him to get it moved!

The other goofball things I enjoy are when the sales managers take out a business card, write some money number on it, and then say "Just for you I can do this today!". Mostly about the service plan stuff and extras. Then the poor finance guy trying sell more garbage. A friend of mine who worked at a dealer said the finance people only made money by selling that garbage along with their pitiful salary. It's all a sales game.

As for the price of cars. Used bring in much more money than new. It's a volume game with the domestic brands. You don't walk into a Ferrari dealer and see a lot with 500 Ferrari's. That's more likely a high margin sale.

Here in our area, the dealers refer to the finance office as "the box". Its merely another way to extract more high profit last minute must haves from you. My last 3 vehicles, I was fortunate enough to pay cash. I told them before even talking to them that under no circumstances would I sit through any sales presentations in "the box". They agreed but its amazing how fast you get out the door if they know youre a no bs person. For my 08 F250 I was in and out with the truck in 65 minutes, I gave him an hour at the beginning of the deal. I'll go back there when ready to buy because they did what they said they would.

Jan 2, 2014 | 06:47 AM

#26

djm1204

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Joined: Jul 2013

Posts: 521

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From: Dunnellon, Fl

to the original question - do they only make $200.00 per sale - think about it - everyone negotiates differently - gets different deals.

Some people go into a dealership - pick out a vehicle - ask a salesperson how much is that car - what kinda deal can you make - the salesperson says let me ask my manager - oh we can take $500 off the MSRP window sticker of $37,500. Customer asks - is that the best you can do ? Salesperson says yes - they ( sales-managers ) are tough - that's the best they will do. Customer - oh ok I'll take it.

Different customer negotiates better and buys the same truck for $35,000.00

At end of model year another same truck list $37,500 is advertised for sale $23,411.00 Customer negotiates a little and truck is sold $23,000.00

I am sure the dealership did not loose money on any of the sales - so on the average they make a lot more that $200.00 on the sale of each vehicle.

Jan 2, 2014 | 06:59 AM

#27

75Three90

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From: Santa Fe Tx

I rember a few years back my dad wanted to buy a brand new motorcycle it was a Vulcan 900 fully loaded. Saddle bags and all. My dad had the money to buy it cash but he wanted to make payments on it to build his credit up. The sales man that was talking to my dad said for a down payment he could afford 1000 down. The sales man insisted on my dad paying 1500 down. My dad told him I feel comfortable will 1000 and the other 500 could be added to the overall price of the bike. The salesman hammered my dad about 1500 was company minimum. Dad had enough and started to walk out and another sales man approached him and told him he could get him the bike for 1000 down. Dad told him to go screw himself with the motorcycle. Needless to say dad didn't buy it. Another thing me and dad do is we go to dealerships in our work clothes to look at vehicles if no one comes out with in 15-20 minutes we go to the next one. We have realized that if they are not willing to work and deal with work in class they can go sceew themswlves with every vehicle on the lot. Just my experience.

PS A car lot that is willing to deal with working class people tend to sell better

Jan 2, 2014 | 07:48 AM

#28

Pikachu

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Joined: Jun 2004

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From: Amarillo, TEXAS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgreening

To the best of my knowledge the holdback has nothing to do with sales numbers.

That was the way the new car sales manager (who was also my roommate at the time) explained it to me. This was at a Chrysler-Jeep dealership back in 2006. He said the dealership lost the holdback if he didn't meet the sales numbers set by Chrysler's regional office.

Jan 2, 2014 | 08:12 AM

#29

winginit

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From: SOUTHBURY CT

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm1204

WOW !! LOT`S OF GREAT INFO HERE IN THIS THREAD !!!

Maybe the first dealer that said they are going to sharpen their pencil made there sale goal for the month, because it did get their late about 2p.m