Cant get timing right ?
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Lake st Louis MO
Cant get timing right ?
Ok so I have another problem with my truck, Yesterday I changed the cap and rotor on my truck because it had a miss to it hoping it would fix it but when I changed the wires I put the wires the exact same way as I pulled them off of the old cap, but when I went to start it noting happend it would just crank and act like it was gonna start but it wouldnt, so I tried the 302 HO firing order and It started but it ran like it was on 2 cylenders and it would backfire out the exhaust then if i touched the gas it would die, then I tried the stock firing order for the truck 302 and it just wouldnt start. I looked at some pictures to see if there was something different about my dizzy compaired to the others and I noticed that my TFI module is sitting angled(pictured below) instead of parallel with the heads anybody have any ideas on how to get this problem solved ?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
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From: Ohio
Ok, you changed cap and rotor and it won't start. If you didn't loosen the distributor, then it did not change the timing. The fact your module is in a slightly different spot is not really an issue.
Did you remove all the wires at once from the cap? (bad idea)
Somehow you got the wires mixed up. If it ran before, that is all that is wrong now.
I would put #1 wire on the spot marked #1 and go around counterclockwise from there with your firing order 15426378. Does it start now?
Did you remove all the wires at once from the cap? (bad idea)
Somehow you got the wires mixed up. If it ran before, that is all that is wrong now.
I would put #1 wire on the spot marked #1 and go around counterclockwise from there with your firing order 15426378. Does it start now?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
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From: Ohio
^^that was my next concern. If someone got the wires moved around an #1 is not at #1 spot anymore(per the factory cap mark).
Quick check is pull cap and turn motor til TDC and see if it points to #1 on cap. Might be 180* out, but just turn motor one time again and see if it lines up.
Quick check is pull cap and turn motor til TDC and see if it points to #1 on cap. Might be 180* out, but just turn motor one time again and see if it lines up.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
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From: Ohio
Have you tried to put the wires back on yet? Starting at the #1 mark on the cap and going CCW? Still think you just put them on in wrong order somehow.
If it still won't start, then someone has changed the distributor and got #1 at a different spot on the cap(no biggie, you just need to check TDC and see where #1 is at).
If it still won't start, then someone has changed the distributor and got #1 at a different spot on the cap(no biggie, you just need to check TDC and see where #1 is at).
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Freshman User
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From: Lake st Louis MO
Ok so I tried putting the wires on counter clockwise in the order you said to put them in, and Im still not having any luck, now when I try to start it it just keeps cranking and itll back fire (not as bad as before but still popping) now you said to check the TDC ? how would I go about doing that ?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
The backfire is from trying to light the fuel in a cylinder with the intake or exhaust valve open. Meaning the firing order is out of whack.
Ok, find the timing mark on the balancer. Might be kinda crusty and hard to find. Get some fine sandpaper and wipe around the balancer til you find the --- mark on it. Rotate the engine over til that mark lines up with timing pointer on the timing cover. Remove the cap and look at where the rotor is pointing. Is it pointing to where #1 wire is on the cap?
Now, you maybe 180* out because you don't know if you are on compression stroke or not. Only way to confirm that is to pull #1 plug and spin motor over and feel for WOOSH of air as piston comes up.
Right now I'm just seeing if you are close to anything. Does it line up or is it 180* out? Does it point to somewhere completely different on the cap??
To go further you need to remove #1 plug(right front head) and rotate motor around til you feel/hear a WOOSH of air coming from that plug. Stop turning engine immediately. Look to see where your timing mark is. Rotate it to that it points to the tab again. Now look to see where rotor is. This is your true TDC and this is where #1 plug wire needs to go.
It really is simple, but hard to type and make it sound easy.
Ok, find the timing mark on the balancer. Might be kinda crusty and hard to find. Get some fine sandpaper and wipe around the balancer til you find the --- mark on it. Rotate the engine over til that mark lines up with timing pointer on the timing cover. Remove the cap and look at where the rotor is pointing. Is it pointing to where #1 wire is on the cap?
Now, you maybe 180* out because you don't know if you are on compression stroke or not. Only way to confirm that is to pull #1 plug and spin motor over and feel for WOOSH of air as piston comes up.
Right now I'm just seeing if you are close to anything. Does it line up or is it 180* out? Does it point to somewhere completely different on the cap??
To go further you need to remove #1 plug(right front head) and rotate motor around til you feel/hear a WOOSH of air coming from that plug. Stop turning engine immediately. Look to see where your timing mark is. Rotate it to that it points to the tab again. Now look to see where rotor is. This is your true TDC and this is where #1 plug wire needs to go.
It really is simple, but hard to type and make it sound easy.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2013
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finding TDC when working alone can be difficult, i find it easiest to just stick a straw in the spark plug hole, then you can easily see it rise up and go back down as you turn the crankshaft ... when the straw reaches its highest point, then that piston is at TDC.
just make danged sure that whatever you stick in there is neither a) too short, nor b) fragile enough to break off and stay in the cylinder. a plastic drinking straw works beautifully.
just make danged sure that whatever you stick in there is neither a) too short, nor b) fragile enough to break off and stay in the cylinder. a plastic drinking straw works beautifully.
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Freshman User
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From: Lake st Louis MO
ok guys I got the truck running now but now I have a bigger probablem, now cylenders #7 and #8 that arent firing and my coil is giving off a mildly weak orange spark, so is it my coil causing that issue, or am I looking at something much worse?
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
Test the power to it then test the coil itself, should read battery voltage to positive side (and your battery should be up to snuff before testing).
Coil primary resistance = 0.3 to 1.0 ohms, Secondary resistance = 8,000 to 11,500 if out of spec replace the coil.
Make sure everything is moisture free.
Coil primary resistance = 0.3 to 1.0 ohms, Secondary resistance = 8,000 to 11,500 if out of spec replace the coil.
Make sure everything is moisture free.