I usually try to avoid bringing an old thread back from the dead, but I have a problem with this. I don't have an 80-86 Bullnose, what I have is an 87 Mazda B series with an 85 Ford 302 & AOD transplanted.

I have no 1-2 shift (starts out in 2nd unless I force it down to first, which is totally not needed anyway).

My 2-3 shift comes up ~25 but does NOT matter if I am heavy throttle or part throttle. Very aggravating. Under light throttle it should shift sooner. I have the hold the gas much too far down for too long to get it to the shift point.
Same for the 3-4. It comes on around 42-44, and does not seem to matter if I am holding the gas pedal down or not. I am telling you I can cruise at 40 with the engine revving like crazy and it will NOT upshift until I hit 42.

The rear end gear is 3.73, so you can imagine the RPM's are pretty high while waiting for it to upshift.

I've played with the cable and got it where it is now (previously it went to 30 for the 2-3 shift and 45 for the 3-4 shift) but what gets me is that it does NOT seem to matter at all whether it's under light acceleration or heavy acceleration.

Any suggestions? I don't know that my geometry is correct. The carburetor is not made for Ford AOD so I'm trying different positions, I am using the LOKAR cable and LOKAR arm on the transmission.

 

You have a problem somewhere, because your automatic transmission should start out in first gear, not second.

My truck has these exact same shifts points under minimum (1500 RPM or less) throttle. It will NOT upshift at speeds less than that. That is the maximum TV setting that is used on the Mustangs and Ford trucks.

If you want the shift speeds to come earlier, you need to loosen up the TV cable, which will lessen the TV pressure. That is how the big luxury cars are set up in order to give smoother, seamless shifts. The downside to this is the clutches will slip more and the transmission will be more reluctant to downshift.

At any rate, the shift speeds should be much quicker and spaced further out under heavier throttle.

Those are normal shift points for a higher TV pressure under normal throttle. But again, the speeds should spread out more under heavier acceleration.

What carburetor are you using?

Think of the throttle arm of the carburetor as a mechanical throttle position sensor for your AOD. The AOD schedules it's shift points and speeds directly from the position of the throttle lever on the carburetor via the TV rod or TV cable. If the rotational geometry at the throttle arm of the carburetor isn't in sync with the pull of the throttle valve of the AOD, you can torch the transmission. I'm not kidding.

Read this:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...th-an-aod.html

 

Hey Lariat 85 thanks for the tips, but for reference 30mph in 2nd gear is 4000 RPM, 25 mph is ~3500. This is way too late for it to be shifting it needs to be upshifting at maybe 2000 rpm under light throttle. Same for 3-4 upshift, 50 mph is 4000 RPM and 40 MPH is about 3000. I want to see the upshifts way earlier than that (unless under heavy throttle). This truck is very light and with 3.373 gears on top of that it's just too much to make it hold the gear for that long. I'm using a Holley 350 two-barrel carb, trying various holes to find one with the best geometry. I'd like to find one that allows NO slack at idle and firm upshifts at ~1500 - 2000 RPM under moderate pedal pressure.

 

Hey Lariat one more thing, it occurs to me I am getting the 1-2 shift and the 2-3 shift but NOT the 3-4 shift. Which I probably would get it if I held the truck to like 65 or 70 (given the range of the previous upshifts). But I hate to put more slack in the TV cable although it sounds like that is what it needs for the upshift to come on sooner.

 

Did you read the link I posted?

You need to STOP what you are doing and LISTEN to the advice I am trying to give to you.

"...trying various holes to find one with the best geometry" is NOT going to solve your problem. Holley makes a geometry corrector bracket specifically for their carburetors to work with automatic overdrive transmissions. It's only about $25, which is a small price to pay compared to a $1000 transmission rebuild. This bracket will put the travel of the carburetor throttle lever in sync with the pull of the AOD throttle valve. YOUR AOD WILL NOT SHIFT CORRECTLY, and IT WILL NOT LAST VERY LONG WITHOUT IT. Until you get the carburetor set up correctly to work with the AOD, you might as well be whistling Dixie and p!ssing in the wind.

How long have you been driving it like this? If you are not getting a 3-4 shift, you may have already burned up your AOD. When they begin to fail from incorrect TV pressure, the overdrive gear is the first to go, followed by third, and then second.

I told you I wasn't kidding.

 

I drove it 4 times today, 3-4 miles each time. Drive, make adjustment, drive again. Etc.

I'm not sure if the LOKAR setup uses the same geometry as the factory cable setup, I know the TV arm on the tranny is not the same length (aka distance from center) as my old one, but my old one was for a rod-style TV setup not the cable style (the throttle body injection setups used a rod not cable).

" Until you get the carburetor set up correctly to work with the AOD, you might as well be whistling Dixie and p!ssing in the wind. " - exactly what I'm trying so hard to do right now!

 

The factory Ford TV rod never connected to the throttle lever on the carburetor. There is a separate TV linkage bracket that works in sync with the throttle lever to hook the TV rod to on stock AOD compatible carburetors.

No aftermarket carburetors are compatible with the Ford TV rod.

The factory Ford TV cable was never used on a stock carburetor. They were only used on EFI-equipped throttle bodies. The geometry of the throttle lever of a throttle body is completely different from the geometry of the throttle lever of a carburetor.

That is why what you are trying to do isn't going to work.

Get it?

Unless you purchase or make the proper geometry corrector bracket, you will NOT get it set up correctly. When it's not set up correctly with the carburetor, the AOD is not going to get the proper throttle pressure for shift points. The end result is an AOD with a VERY short life.

Remember I told you that.

Good luck!

 

Well, it's just math! I have to find the correct point along the axis to give it the desired travel. I know at this point I'm obviously giving it too much TV pressure while at mid-throttle, so I think the answer is going to be to reduce the diameter of the arc. Plus the LOKAR arm on the tranny is a bit shorter that the arm for the Ford cable was so that means less cable travel required to move the arm from point A to point B.

Is this a good example of the throttle geometry corrector bracket you mentioned earlier?

Holley Carburetor AS4 04K TV Cable Corrector 700R4 2004R AOD 4L60 700 200 4R 700 | eBay

 

Sure, it's just math. But if you get the numbers wrong, you won't just have a failing grade. You will have a failing transmission in need of an expensive rebuild.

The problem with guessing is that you may find a point that *seems* to work fine. But the pressure inside the AOD must ramp up at a certain rate as the throttle is increased.

I have had my AOD controlled by a Lokar TV cable connected to first a Holley and then an Autolite 4100 4V carburetor with the same results. I ran into the same problem on BOTH carburetors before I used the geometry corrector bracket and did what you are trying to do ("trying various holes to find one with the best geometry"). If I set the TV cable for maximum pull at maximum throttle, the TV cable was too long and had a lot of slack at idle, which means the pressure was too low everywhere else except at wide open throttle. The result was super fast, stacked shifts. If you drive it around like that for even a few miles, you will quickly overheat the transmission and it will need a complete rebuild.

Conversely, if I set the TV cable at idle without any slack or tension, the TV cable was too short to even reach full throttle, which means the pressure was too high everywhere else except at idle. The result was shifts that were spaced too far out, and an overdrive that wouldn't come in until well over 60 MPH, and then it shifted with an annoying "Clunk." If I stomped hard on the gas pedal, the throttle lever on the carburetor would pull the [too short] TV cable out of adjustment, and then it would go back to having a too long TV cable, and the results listed in the previous paragraph.

Why did these scenarios happen? Because the geometry of the carburetor throttle lever was not in sync with the pull of the throttle valve of the transmission.

Yes, that is what the newer ones look like.

Mine is slightly different, though, and it doesn't use that little spring. I think Holley now makes one corrector bracket to fit either the Holley or the Edelbrock carburetor, whereas they used to make two different ones. The one pictured is what the Edelbrock-specific bracket used to look like; the Holley one was wider. The corrector bracket needs the little spring to work on a Holley carburetor, as the throttle lever is different than the Edelbrock.

 

If it helps, I'll share some of the information from my cable installation on my 1981 F100
with an AOD transmission and a Holley 4bbl.

I used some parts that used to be available from Ford. An FOAZ-7FO42-A TV cable
and a transmission arm off of a 90s Mustang. I had to fabricate a lever to fit the carb.

The key measurement I used on the bracket was that the cable hookup must be
1 and 13/32 inches from the center of the carburetor pivot shaft.

Mine has worked very well and shifts considerably smoother with a cable than with
the rod.

Another key thing is to make sure that the carb and the transmission lever both bottom
out at full throttle. You can check this by having someone hold the throttle wide open,
with the engine off, and get under and observe the lever on the transmission.

Work the throttle and observe how the transmission lever moves.

This should help you to get closer with your setup. Listen to what Lariat85 says about
these AODs They are very unforgiving if you don't get the linkage adjust just right.

Good luck on yours.

 

Well changing the geometry definitely helped, I know now that I was not getting into 4th gear before. After lowering my TV cable point so as to have a reduced arc, I make the 1-2 shift at 11mph, the 2-3 shift at 34 mph, and the 3-4 shift at 47mph. Given the 3.73 gear ratio this is even a little high, but a huge improvement over what I had before (which was going into 3rd gear around 45mph and not hitting 4th at all, which I didn't really go above 60 so probably I would have eventually hit it at 65 or 70 maybe).

Thanks for the tips it would really help me out if you would take a pic of your carburetor and the throttle corrector bracket with the cable going to it, so I can get an idea of what it looks like installed with the cable going to it. My cable comes in from the front of the carburetor which seems to be a lot less common than having the cable come in from the rear next to the throttle cable, but it will help me see in my mind how it should be nonetheless.

 

Listen to this guy, he knows what he is talking about. AODs are very dependent on the adjustment of the tv cable. If it's not right, you will surely find out in short matter.

Here's the bracket:


I just put an AOD in my '86 and had to order this bracket too. It makes things sooo much easier, and right. If your cable is coming from the front, it is wrong and needs to be corrected.

For Edelbrock with AOD: Summit Racing® Throttle Valve Correctors SUM-700203 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

 

By "reducing the arc," you are merely guessing. Your shift points are still NOT correct. Which means the pressure inside your transmission is NOT correct. And that means your AOD (or GM 200R4 or 700R4) will NOT last.

Under very light (under 1500 RPM) throttle, these are the correct shift points for the AOD:

1-2 = 15-20 MPH
2-3 = 25-30 MPH
3-4 = 45-50 MPH

Do you notice how evenly spaced the shift points are? Your shift points are not even close. With the 3.73 gears, your shifts should come in slightly quicker than the ones I posted above, unless you are running a shift kit.

In front of the carburetor? That is NOT correct. I have never seen nor heard of such a thing. That is not how Lokar tells you to hook it up, either.

Here is what you are asking for, but it's not going to work when you are doing everything else wrong:

http://documents.holley.com/199r10345rev2.pdf

 

Well I routed my cable from the front, this is what I needed to do in my case. Clearance and other issues dictated that. I was looking for a real person's picture of the carburetor bracket & TV cable as installed, when they are using the LOKAR bracket on the transmission. The LOKAR tranny arm is shorter than the Ford TV arm was, so I don't think they'd be using the same point / position on the throttle arm.

 

You said earlier your ran your Lokar TV cable from the front of the carburetor. Did you mean you routed your TV cable from the front of the transmission case? If so, that is how mine is routed. Below is a picture of my actual truck:



My Lokar TV cable routes up from the front of the transmission, up the firewall, to the back of the throttle cable bracket bolted to the intake, and finally connecting to the stud on the geometry corrector bracket, bolted to the carburetor throttle lever.

Here is a video of how the geometry corrector bracket is bolted to the carburetor, with the TV cable connected to it. Start watching at 1:30 to see how it works. It shown with a GM transmission and TV cable, but it works the same as with the AOD and Lokar TV cable. I can't show you a picture of mine, because my truck is in the shop getting painted.