Diagnostics first ... way OT
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Elder User
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Diagnostics first ... way OT
Neighbor came to me to see if i could find what was wrong with his Sea-Doo water craft. (This is a 2-stroke, 2 cylinder rig.) He just got it back from the dealer, where they quoted him a new short block plus labor, about $1900. They said the engine was seized, but could turn 60*. What?!?!
Following their indications, I pulled the cylinders / heads (no issues), and decided to pull the engine to check the alternator / pump (cannot get to it in situ). Once I got the (solid) drive shaft off the engine, the motor turned freely. The jet was locked. New bearings and seals all around and runs great. (Gaskets on the engine as well.)
Now, I admit to doing extra work based on their diagnostics (engine tear down), so don't shoot me on that. I should have done better diagnostics myself. My father (who owned his own shop) taught me to troubleshoot first, then repair.
My question is: Why in can't paid, experienced "mechanics" do proper troubleshooting on anything? Is troubleshooting even taught anymore? It seems there are part swappers in every dealer I've been to, no matter what they deal in.
Sorry for the rant.
Any thoughts?
Following their indications, I pulled the cylinders / heads (no issues), and decided to pull the engine to check the alternator / pump (cannot get to it in situ). Once I got the (solid) drive shaft off the engine, the motor turned freely. The jet was locked. New bearings and seals all around and runs great. (Gaskets on the engine as well.)
Now, I admit to doing extra work based on their diagnostics (engine tear down), so don't shoot me on that. I should have done better diagnostics myself. My father (who owned his own shop) taught me to troubleshoot first, then repair.
My question is: Why in can't paid, experienced "mechanics" do proper troubleshooting on anything? Is troubleshooting even taught anymore? It seems there are part swappers in every dealer I've been to, no matter what they deal in.
Sorry for the rant.
Any thoughts?
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 224
From: Frequently frozen MN
If they just quoted the $1900, then it sounds like they were pretty sloppy. If they said "we'll have to get into it a little bit, but it could end up at $1900", that would be more reasonable.
I do think that diagnostics in general are a problem these days. I'm not any kind of an auto tech, but I get some impressions from reading tech stuff where I can find it.
In general I think that there are several issues:
- nobody wants to pay for diagnostic time and shop rates are high
- sometimes it's cheaper to toss in a part rather than run the diagnostic (plus then you have a new part)
- vehicles, for sure, have become tougher to fix. They last longer, but they can have some devious issues.
I've read a lot about "pattern failures" -- that seems to be the new deal. Various groups try to gather info about failures and symptoms. Then they look for trends -- sometimes just through professional forums.
The upshot is that if crank sensors are a big problem on Hupmobiles, they might swap one out --if it's one of several items that could cause a problem.
I don't like the concept, but then it's not my job to turn out so many Hupmobile repairs in a day.
hj
I do think that diagnostics in general are a problem these days. I'm not any kind of an auto tech, but I get some impressions from reading tech stuff where I can find it.
In general I think that there are several issues:
- nobody wants to pay for diagnostic time and shop rates are high
- sometimes it's cheaper to toss in a part rather than run the diagnostic (plus then you have a new part)
- vehicles, for sure, have become tougher to fix. They last longer, but they can have some devious issues.
I've read a lot about "pattern failures" -- that seems to be the new deal. Various groups try to gather info about failures and symptoms. Then they look for trends -- sometimes just through professional forums.
The upshot is that if crank sensors are a big problem on Hupmobiles, they might swap one out --if it's one of several items that could cause a problem.
I don't like the concept, but then it's not my job to turn out so many Hupmobile repairs in a day.
hj
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,877
Likes: 49
From: Tennessee
[quote=ford2go;13742772]
I do think that diagnostics in general are a problem these days. I'm not any kind of an auto tech, but I get some impressions from reading tech stuff where I can find it
nobody wants to pay for diagnostic time
BINGO
you win . No one wants to PAY what it is worth to diagnose their auto ,machine , etc. 
If I have 9 grand in a scan tool , I NEED to recover the cost by charging for what I am able to do with it ! I ain't a Mcdonalds reject selling parts at the corner parts house giving free scans with a $50. code reader ! 
. I have money , LOTS of money invested in my tools and training . People get screwed around so much that honest shops have a hard time convincing them some times . Ticks me off .
I do think that diagnostics in general are a problem these days. I'm not any kind of an auto tech, but I get some impressions from reading tech stuff where I can find it
nobody wants to pay for diagnostic time
BINGO
you win . No one wants to PAY what it is worth to diagnose their auto ,machine , etc. If I have 9 grand in a scan tool , I NEED to recover the cost by charging for what I am able to do with it ! I ain't a Mcdonalds reject selling parts at the corner parts house giving free scans with a $50. code reader ! . I have money , LOTS of money invested in my tools and training . People get screwed around so much that honest shops have a hard time convincing them some times . Ticks me off .
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Elder User
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Found out that this machine has been in that same shop 6 times for "engine trouble".
The problem isn't the engine, it's the pump (turbo) that the engine drives. It has bad bearings. I'd say diagnostics were very important.
I understand the cost of tools and equipment and people not wanting to pay the cost, but this machine isn't computer controlled. Any competent professional mechanic should be able to find the problem easier than I did.
The problem isn't the engine, it's the pump (turbo) that the engine drives. It has bad bearings. I'd say diagnostics were very important.
I understand the cost of tools and equipment and people not wanting to pay the cost, but this machine isn't computer controlled. Any competent professional mechanic should be able to find the problem easier than I did.
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