I have to admit watching theastronaut rebuild I am stripping the interior of my 1966. I did not want to hijack his thread - but have questions on paint.

Every fine craftsmen here seems to use Epoxy, but to get my dash and doors painted- every shop I've gone to has recommended Urethanes. Can someone tell me the differences and the advantages of each. Its not the cost of the material I am after since the area is small. But with the labor involved to strip, and all the electric/mechanical removal - I want an finish that's like what I see here.

Is the epoxy not to be done by amateur like me?
Thanks for the help,

Scott

 

Epoxy usually refers to the primer. I am not aware of any true epoxy topcoats, but there may be some. Most modern paints are urethane, either single stage, (paint + catalyst + reducer) or basecoat clearcoat (paint + reducer, then clear + catalyst)
Either will work fine but require some skill to look good.
Acrylic enamel is another option if you can find it. All of these should be sprayed in a paint booth with proper safety gear.

Were you planning on doing this yourself or using a body shop?

 

thanks Tinman, you make it simple. I never got that lurking on the forum, glad I asked. I don't think I have the ability and /or equipment to do it myself. I don't mind stripping and sanding. Currently I've stripped to bare metal, phosphorized it and sprayed a rattlecan acid etch primer. I will try to find someone willing to spray the Primer and color.
I would love to try, but my first probably shouldn't be my dashboard.



Scott

 

Highlight above. Phosphoric acid wash and then self etching primer? If I read that correctly that is something you don't want to do. Self etch already has acid in it so one doesn't put acid on top of another acid. Same goes for epoxy primers. Some have acid and can never go on top of a metal that has been prepped with any kind of metal wash/metal conditioner which is acid. I use Picklex 20 to protect bare metal so I use either PPG DPLF or Kirker Enduro epoxy primers which contain no acid on top.

I would strip the dash in preparation for applying a 2K primer and then top coat. Rattle can 1K primer would be your weakest link between the topcoat and the metal.

 

tbm3Fan you've got me worried. I actually got my info from the forum and listened to what Boss9F100 had said to others - that if you don't know what is there its easier to remove all the paint with stripper and start anew.
I have 9 coats of paint in my cab, including one by brush, all by previous owners, So without spray equipment started working on my dash. Stripped it clean and sprayed Jasco Prep - 25% solution- on to take care of any previous scratches etc. Washed it off with water and then it was shiny metal.
That was where I went wrong. Since I don't have the equipment for the epoxy primer --I wanted to seal it temporarily with something until doing the same with both doors (interior) and the pillars. (probably 3 weeks at my speed)

I sprayed Duplicolor acid primer from a can since it was bare metal

I don't know what a 2K primer is

At this point- should I simply remove the primer with acetone and try to find a compatible primer (in a can) and recoat. Or should I leave it until I have someone that can spray epoxy prime / color and then remove and have them spray.

I am assuming the Jasco replaces the PPG579
Should the painter use PPG520 prior to the 74LF

I'm trying to ask intelligent questions -but I don't know what I am talking about
Scott

 

2K primer is a catalyzed filler primer. Requires a spray gun.
Epoxy primer is generally used over bare metal as a rust preventer. It has very little filler qualities. Using rattle can primer under auto paint is not advised.

As for the metal etching, it really depends on what's going over it.

Please talk to a pro painter or paint supply store (in person) and get first hand info. Otherwise you are just chasing your tail.

 

Painting is definitely a hard core skill...for an area like the dash though..not as big a deal as the exterior-I'm not for a moment
saying my skills are anywhere near par to the pro's, but having worked alongside a few involved with the painting of three
helicopters and several sets of tail-rotor and main rotor blades-what I have learned as the most important key to a successful
paint-job is PREPARATION and good quality primers and paint. It takes less than two hours to paint an entire helo, but took two
and a half months to prep!

This is where most people fall short, they get so keyed up to shoot paint on the tin that they do a second rate job at prep. If you
have a compressor, get a decent paint gun and moisture filter and go for it. Practice on some other metal first...you'd be surprised
at the outcome.

This does not apply to the exterior though...the larger the canvas, the better to expose your lack of skill!
BTW, I love single stage paint for these trucks...
Jason

 

Is the truck outside or in a garage? If it is inside a dry garage then you could have probably left the dash bare metal. My hood was stored next to my work bench for a whole winter in bare metal with no issues.

When spring came I went over the hood with PPG metal conditioner before spraying white DPLF and that was 5 years ago. Since then I learned about this chemical called Picklex 20 which will protect bare stored metal from flash rust as long as it doesn't get wet. Scuff with a 3M red pad and spray with DPLF.

What I would suggest is leave the Duplicolor primer now on the metal and finish what you are doing. When it is time to spray the 2K epoxy primer DPLF 74 then remove the rattle can primer. No different than having metal blasted and then spraying with epoxy primer for protection until one can do bodywork. At that point you would sand off the primer, do your body work, and then respray epoxy.

I would remove the rattle can primer with some 180 grit sand paper if that hasn't been used on the dash yet. The 180 will give the epoxy primer something to bite into.

 

Scott, feel free ask any questions in the resto thread, no worries about hijacking!

Epoxy is the primer we use over bare metal. It seals the metal but has no filling/build properties. It's also not very sandable. It has excellent adhesion, and with PPG brand you can apply anything on top within 7 days and it chemically bonds with the epoxy- body filler, primer, or seam sealer. Other than SPI (also great quality), I'm not aware of any other company's epoxy that is capable of that. It has a catalyst, PPG mixes 2 parts primer to 1 part catalyst. I like to reduce it 5-10% so it flow out better. It's usually thin enough that any paint gun can spray it. I have a 2.5 tip on my primer gun and have to turn the flow down so it doesn't run.

Urethane primer is sometimes called "2K" or "high build". It is also a two-part primer that uses a catalyst. It builds thick so you have a lot of material to cover over and then sand smooth minor imperfections. It can also be painted over directly if you sand to 5-600 for solids and 800 for metallics. It can be thinned as well, different companies recommend different amounts. You'll need atleast a 1.7 or 1.8 tip to spray it, it's pretty thick. A 2.0-2.3 tip is ideal. My 2.5 tip is slightly overkill for urethane high build so I wouldn't go that big.


There are companies that make a "Direct to Metal" high build primer, I don't know how well it sticks or how well it seals the metal though. For an interior part like a dash that won't see weather, it may be worth looking into. Could just buy one product that seals and builds, and is sandable/paintable.

Whatever you decide to use, you must wear a respirator and have good ventilation. The isocyanate in the catalyst is known to cause cancer.

In your case I would strip the rattle can primer, prep the bare metal with PPG DX579 Metal Cleaner, then PPG DX520 Metal Conditioner. Then shoot epoxy over the treated metal. Let the area dry overnight with fans on it to fully dry out any seams before priming. We've been using this process for a few years with zero problems. Good luck, and don't be scared to do it yourself! You can always sand any runs out or scuff and spot prime any problem areas. The nice thing about catalyzed primers is you can respray at any time without lifting or wrinkling issues.

 

Thank you all for the help to a newby. I am continuing the stripping and will find a pro to spray the primer. Then I will see where it goes from there. Does anybody have a suggestion on the the interior gloss. (EDIT - SHOULD IT BE GLOSS OR SATIN FINISH?) It looks like the same finish goes over the interior as on the outside on many pictures.