Lower front shock mount broken
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,040
Likes: 137
From: Maryville
I'm sick of your lack of knowledge so let me point this out for you, the stud does not break, a bolt will not break, the nut becomes frozen onto the threads causing it to snap the end off, the stud remains, the threaded end is gone, END OF STORY!
Before you blame the mechanic just remember steel corrodes, no matter what you spray on it, or how much care you give in cleaning, when fused it will not come off. I used to work on farm equipment, the only way to remove many bolts was to heat them, call in the flame wrench, this is an item few people have, and rarely want to use around volatile materials, you know the rubber bushing in the shock down there will catch on fire.
A bolt is fine, as I said, it's used in many other vehicles in the same way, quit feeding the troll!
Before you blame the mechanic just remember steel corrodes, no matter what you spray on it, or how much care you give in cleaning, when fused it will not come off. I used to work on farm equipment, the only way to remove many bolts was to heat them, call in the flame wrench, this is an item few people have, and rarely want to use around volatile materials, you know the rubber bushing in the shock down there will catch on fire.
A bolt is fine, as I said, it's used in many other vehicles in the same way, quit feeding the troll!
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,351
Likes: 8
And "I'm sick of your" attempt to chew out PStruwing, he posted that he "broke off the stud on the arm" after I made the specific guess:
Was raised on a farm, it had old equipment sat that where it broke until somebody went out & fixed it & next door to an Allis Chalmers/New Idea dealer. Was repairing & running farm equipment at home & dealer years before 16. Have had access to oxyacetylene torch since I was a child & have owned my own torches since early 70's. Was TIG welding AL & SS in mid 60's when that specialized equipment was actually "rarely" seen. Have stick, MIG & TIG welders & plasma cutter. And from early 70's to '05 "I used to work" for major museums restoring stuff in their collections.
Thanks for your priceless Leg Up: "you know the rubber bushing in the shock down there will catch on fire".... Ya think?
Here's a tip for you. Never once in all those years ever heard anybody call a torch "the flame wrench". The commonly heard nickname has always been 'Blue Tip Wrench'.
Thanks for your priceless Leg Up: "you know the rubber bushing in the shock down there will catch on fire".... Ya think?
Here's a tip for you. Never once in all those years ever heard anybody call a torch "the flame wrench". The commonly heard nickname has always been 'Blue Tip Wrench'.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,040
Likes: 137
From: Maryville
I never attempted to chew anyone out, but you just can't let it go on just putting a bolt in, just keep draggin this out!
OMG, really, wow, I stand corrected, blue tip wrench, guess I've worked with an uneducated bunch then, BTW when stuff broke on site, we couldn't wait, one of us took care of it!
Since you are so knowledgeable in welding, then you should know that you can't lay under a van and weld a bolt on the radius arm!
OMG, really, wow, I stand corrected, blue tip wrench, guess I've worked with an uneducated bunch then, BTW when stuff broke on site, we couldn't wait, one of us took care of it!
Since you are so knowledgeable in welding, then you should know that you can't lay under a van and weld a bolt on the radius arm!
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
"Personally, I think the" shock absorber bottom mounting stud was designed by FORD to withstand 100's of thousands of miles of punishing 'machine gun like' shock from near constant up & down vertical loads inflicted by normal driving.
The stud was apparently not designed for torsional loads far in excess of the torque specified to tighten the nut, or for tension load far beyond what's needed to properly compress rubber shock bushing, as I mentioned.
Robust was used descriptively in comparing the thicker diameter that fits inside rubber bushing, to the thinner threaded portion & the fact that a wide base, rigidly welded, stud is stronger & more stable than a common 1/2" bolt "merely" slipped thru a drilled hole.
If the stud was pressed in you'd "merely" have to press broken one out & press replacement in.
IMO "if he broke off the stud itself" it suggests a rusty seized condition that didn't receive enough care/patience & instead got way too much grunt.
Some Grease Monkeys also habitually overtighten things w/impact wrenches, stretching & weakening fasteners, w/o a thought. Excessive tightening of shock nut could easily gall threads on stud, greatly reduce torsional strength & make them fragile to remove.
The stud was apparently not designed for torsional loads far in excess of the torque specified to tighten the nut, or for tension load far beyond what's needed to properly compress rubber shock bushing, as I mentioned.
Robust was used descriptively in comparing the thicker diameter that fits inside rubber bushing, to the thinner threaded portion & the fact that a wide base, rigidly welded, stud is stronger & more stable than a common 1/2" bolt "merely" slipped thru a drilled hole.
If the stud was pressed in you'd "merely" have to press broken one out & press replacement in.
IMO "if he broke off the stud itself" it suggests a rusty seized condition that didn't receive enough care/patience & instead got way too much grunt.
Some Grease Monkeys also habitually overtighten things w/impact wrenches, stretching & weakening fasteners, w/o a thought. Excessive tightening of shock nut could easily gall threads on stud, greatly reduce torsional strength & make them fragile to remove.
And for your continued assertion that the stud is robust ? You're splitting hairs here, as the stud and the threaded portion are one and the same part. 
The torque applied to the stud to compress the rubber bushing" is more than the torsional loads subjected to the stud ? Really ? Are you really understanding what it is that you're typing here ? It's all gobblety gook to everyone reading it.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
I hate to say it, but yes you can weld a bolt to the radius arm. There's nothing preventing that from happening if someone so chooses to do so. The factory welds them, so there's nothing saying someone else can't do the same too. I don't understand what would make you think it can't be done.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
That was what I figured you were concerned with, but seems to me that the arms aren't bearing any load to speak of, the axles carry the weight, the arms really only serve to keep the axles in place, if anything the arms are in compression when the vehicle's in motion. Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't weld em with a torch, only using a Mig or TIG, and then only welding the heads to the arm with the shanks extending thru the arms, same as Ford has done with the studs that started this thread. I wouldn't weld the bolts directly to the arm without extending them thru the arm first. Nor would I subject the arm to more heat than's necessary to weld the heads to the arm.
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,351
Likes: 8
And "I figured" it was already an established/accepted fact that "The factory welds them" since #9.
Anybody still think FORD "merely" presses the stud into radius arm?
For a guy using "the flame wrench" you suddenly got worried about parts that "are heat treated"?
"I figured the" strength & rigidity of this wide base, welded stud was self evident & the suggestion of drilling a hole & slipping a 1/2" bolt through could match its performance "wouldn't hold up".
IMO, if FORD welded them, I can weld them.
Anybody still think FORD "merely" presses the stud into radius arm?
"I figured the" strength & rigidity of this wide base, welded stud was self evident & the suggestion of drilling a hole & slipping a 1/2" bolt through could match its performance "wouldn't hold up".
IMO, if FORD welded them, I can weld them.
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Lead Driver
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,040
Likes: 137
From: Maryville
And "I figured" it was already an established/accepted fact that "The factory welds them" since #9.
Anybody still think FORD "merely" presses the stud into radius arm?
For a guy using "the flame wrench" you suddenly got worried about parts that "are heat treated"?
"I figured the" strength & rigidity of this wide base, welded stud was self evident & the suggestion of drilling a hole & slipping a 1/2" bolt through could match its performance "wouldn't hold up".
IMO, if FORD welded them, I can weld them.
Anybody still think FORD "merely" presses the stud into radius arm?
For a guy using "the flame wrench" you suddenly got worried about parts that "are heat treated"?
"I figured the" strength & rigidity of this wide base, welded stud was self evident & the suggestion of drilling a hole & slipping a 1/2" bolt through could match its performance "wouldn't hold up".
IMO, if FORD welded them, I can weld them.
Used the torch/flame wrench to heat nuts to remove them from items, any more stupid comments?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
From: Trenton, MI
My old 96 E350 been welded for that reason. Of course it broken when they hit something so hard it smash rubber stop off the frame.
My opinion they should have put on top of arm like F series truck do.
My opinion they should have put on top of arm like F series truck do.
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,351
Likes: 8
"if anything the arms are in compression when the vehicle's in motion"?
R-E-A-L-L-Y? Want to rethink that? Sure they "aren't bearing any load to speak of"?
Normally "when the vehicle's in motion" on smooth road & at steady speed, they "aren't bearing any load to speak of". However whenever a tire hits a pothole at speed quite a massive jolt is endured by radius arm. Think - 5000 lb plus load HAMMER. Every time the brakes get stomped those G forces go from tire to frame thru radius arms.
If it "seems to" you that a fully loaded E350 forced to make a panic stop, or hitting lousy RR crossings at speed, doesn't put "any load to speak of" on radius arms - more power to you.
And, YES "in compression" until you back up. Then the chuck holes & braking put them in tension.
R-E-A-L-L-Y? Want to rethink that? Sure they "aren't bearing any load to speak of"?
If it "seems to" you that a fully loaded E350 forced to make a panic stop, or hitting lousy RR crossings at speed, doesn't put "any load to speak of" on radius arms - more power to you.
And, YES "in compression" until you back up. Then the chuck holes & braking put them in tension.
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,351
Likes: 8
You're welcome to take up your concern that "Welding just doesn't seem required" with FORD & stuff their Suggestion Box with "tack welding thick washers is best". Am sure they'd get a kick out of the advice.
Not to "just keep draggin this out" but, the point was FORD quite apparently has been "Welding" them for decades. For me it's a No Brainer that FORD thought "Welding...is best".
Don't think you fully appreciate; the strength of the special welded OEM stud, the high loads routinely placed upon it, or how EZ it is to weld an extremely suitable restoration.
Glad to see the 1/2" bolt & thick washers works well enough "you just can't let it go".
Don't think you fully appreciate; the strength of the special welded OEM stud, the high loads routinely placed upon it, or how EZ it is to weld an extremely suitable restoration.
Glad to see the 1/2" bolt & thick washers works well enough "you just can't let it go".
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,040
Likes: 137
From: Maryville
Yet the part sold to repair the broken stud bolts on, requires you to drill out the old one, better call Ford and report them!
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 419
Likes: 2
From: Lakefield Ontario
Now let me end this battle and explain why I did and what I will do.
The bolts above in Maples post is the one I was trying to find, but seems to be no longer stocked in any parts shops in my area.
That is why I started this post.
I will be watching the bolt that I put in. The 1/2 bolt I put in has a shoulder that is just under 1/2", so it is very snug in he 1/2" hole. If it starts moving I will weld the head of the bolt to the head of the other "Welded in factory bolt" using a low heat technique, kinda like a body panel. Tack, wait. Tack wait.
If I can find the bolt above I will put that in right away.
The story of this bolt is over!
The bolts above in Maples post is the one I was trying to find, but seems to be no longer stocked in any parts shops in my area.
That is why I started this post. I will be watching the bolt that I put in. The 1/2 bolt I put in has a shoulder that is just under 1/2", so it is very snug in he 1/2" hole. If it starts moving I will weld the head of the bolt to the head of the other "Welded in factory bolt" using a low heat technique, kinda like a body panel. Tack, wait. Tack wait.
If I can find the bolt above I will put that in right away.
The story of this bolt is over!