Valve seal replacement without removing head?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,005
Likes: 7
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Valve seal replacement without removing head?
Alright guys, I'm prepared to give my old tired worn out cargo van, one last repair, to try and minimize it's oil consumption, witch has worsen lately. 2 quarts every 300 miles....
I've replaced the CDR 3 times! 2 first times with used ones, and finally last time, a BRAND NEW one, and none of them ever made a difference, so took the new one off to put back an older one and save the new one for later.
So now the only other thing I can think of, causing it to drink oil (and flavor doesn't make a difference, it drinks it all the same), is bad valve seals.
Because, the engine has no blow by at all out the oil fill! It does have 416,000 miles, so I know it will be burning some oil even with new seals, but 2 quarts every 200-300 miles is really starting to **** me off. I did an oil change on it today, witch consisted of replacing the filter....that's it. It always has new oil in it!
Starting cold *sometimes* it'll just pouf out a small puff of blue smoke, nothing more. Most of the time tho, it puffs out a chug of black smoke.
Today was bad, I had constant blue smoke most of the day on the highway, did about 200 miles today, all highway.
I noticed just running empty, all of a sudden I started noticing a big cloud of blue smoke fallowing me from the exhaust, it lasted for about 15 min, then completely cleared? While later, it started again, but just a very light steady stream of blue smoke for over an hour.
Smokes dark black when you floor it though.
Idiot stupid me, didn't replace the valve seals when I had the heads off the dang thing, now i'm tempted to try and do them right onboard the van!
I know i'm gonna need a spring compressor tool, but does anyone know if they make adapters for glow plug holes, to plug in compressor air into the cylinder, to keep the valve up when I remove the spring?? I know they have that for gassers....
I've replaced the CDR 3 times! 2 first times with used ones, and finally last time, a BRAND NEW one, and none of them ever made a difference, so took the new one off to put back an older one and save the new one for later.
So now the only other thing I can think of, causing it to drink oil (and flavor doesn't make a difference, it drinks it all the same), is bad valve seals.
Because, the engine has no blow by at all out the oil fill! It does have 416,000 miles, so I know it will be burning some oil even with new seals, but 2 quarts every 200-300 miles is really starting to **** me off. I did an oil change on it today, witch consisted of replacing the filter....that's it. It always has new oil in it!
Starting cold *sometimes* it'll just pouf out a small puff of blue smoke, nothing more. Most of the time tho, it puffs out a chug of black smoke.
Today was bad, I had constant blue smoke most of the day on the highway, did about 200 miles today, all highway.
I noticed just running empty, all of a sudden I started noticing a big cloud of blue smoke fallowing me from the exhaust, it lasted for about 15 min, then completely cleared? While later, it started again, but just a very light steady stream of blue smoke for over an hour.
Smokes dark black when you floor it though.
Idiot stupid me, didn't replace the valve seals when I had the heads off the dang thing, now i'm tempted to try and do them right onboard the van!
I know i'm gonna need a spring compressor tool, but does anyone know if they make adapters for glow plug holes, to plug in compressor air into the cylinder, to keep the valve up when I remove the spring?? I know they have that for gassers....
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Central Iowa
Probably do, take the GP into a auto parts store and have them size it, I'd imagine it's a pretty standard thread.
Sounds to me though like you ought to take the heads off, reseat the valves, and put new guides and valve seals in. I had a gasser do the same thing to me...
Sounds to me though like you ought to take the heads off, reseat the valves, and put new guides and valve seals in. I had a gasser do the same thing to me...
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,005
Likes: 7
From: Ottawa, Ontario
When I had the heads off, I sent them off to a good machine shop, I had them shave 'em down, crack checked, and check valve sealing. He said those heads were A1! So hopefully the guides aren't worn, if they were, wouldn't that cause the valve to have play and loose compression?
All they needed was re-surfaced as both were warped, and one was actually twisted pretty bad. I'm thinking this engine overheated pretty bad at some point, explaining why the valve seals are probably done.
All they needed was re-surfaced as both were warped, and one was actually twisted pretty bad. I'm thinking this engine overheated pretty bad at some point, explaining why the valve seals are probably done.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Central Iowa
If the valve guides are worn, it uses oil, and yes decreases compression, which is why I am suspicious of them, because you said it was smoking black, so unless the pump is turned up, that would indicate not enough air or not complete combustion, both of which are due to lack of compression in most cases.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,005
Likes: 7
From: Ottawa, Ontario
The machine shop said all the valves were sealing 100%.
Pump ain't turned up, but it is a 7.3 pump on a 6.9, it's new from 2 years ago. Timing never set with a meter, just by ear by me.
Pump ain't turned up, but it is a 7.3 pump on a 6.9, it's new from 2 years ago. Timing never set with a meter, just by ear by me.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 21
May not work, but have you tried any Auto Rx? It can do allot for oil consumption and compression. I ran it through mine and it helped. I was having to add oil 2 or 3 times between oil changes.....now I haven't had too at all.
It is also supposed to help with worn seals etc, but if they are too far gone then it may not matter. I know of quite a few people who have had great luck with it......running 2 or 3 treatments through it and each time it get s better. Just a thought.
Auto-Rx Plus Non-Toxic Sludge Remover and Cleaner for Engines and Transmissions
It is also supposed to help with worn seals etc, but if they are too far gone then it may not matter. I know of quite a few people who have had great luck with it......running 2 or 3 treatments through it and each time it get s better. Just a thought.
Auto-Rx Plus Non-Toxic Sludge Remover and Cleaner for Engines and Transmissions
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Central Iowa
I don't like crankcase cleaners, because they get JUNK in lifters... If you change oil like you should you won't have any sludge problems.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 21
From my research, personal use and the experience of numerous other people I found that Auto Rx does not do this. It is designed to clean things in a way that does not allow large amounts/particles of sludge to float around the system. It dissolves it over the course of about 3k miles. It is much milder than most the other flushed and works over time to keep what you are talking about from happening.
Quality oil and scheduled changes do go a long way in preventing build up, but in the case of high mileage/multiple owner vehicles you don't always know what the maintenance schedule was prior to you having the vehicle. You are stuck trying to undo other peoples mistakes. Auto Rx can help with this.
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2008
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Likes: 2
Alright guys, I'm prepared to give my old tired worn out cargo van, one last repair, to try and minimize it's oil consumption, witch has worsen lately. 2 quarts every 300 miles....
I've replaced the CDR 3 times! 2 first times with used ones, and finally last time, a BRAND NEW one, and none of them ever made a difference, so took the new one off to put back an older one and save the new one for later.
So now the only other thing I can think of, causing it to drink oil (and flavor doesn't make a difference, it drinks it all the same), is bad valve seals.
Because, the engine has no blow by at all out the oil fill! It does have 416,000 miles, so I know it will be burning some oil even with new seals, but 2 quarts every 200-300 miles is really starting to **** me off. I did an oil change on it today, witch consisted of replacing the filter....that's it. It always has new oil in it!
Starting cold *sometimes* it'll just pouf out a small puff of blue smoke, nothing more. Most of the time tho, it puffs out a chug of black smoke.
Today was bad, I had constant blue smoke most of the day on the highway, did about 200 miles today, all highway.
I noticed just running empty, all of a sudden I started noticing a big cloud of blue smoke fallowing me from the exhaust, it lasted for about 15 min, then completely cleared? While later, it started again, but just a very light steady stream of blue smoke for over an hour.
Smokes dark black when you floor it though.
Idiot stupid me, didn't replace the valve seals when I had the heads off the dang thing, now i'm tempted to try and do them right onboard the van!
I know i'm gonna need a spring compressor tool, but does anyone know if they make adapters for glow plug holes, to plug in compressor air into the cylinder, to keep the valve up when I remove the spring?? I know they have that for gassers....
I've replaced the CDR 3 times! 2 first times with used ones, and finally last time, a BRAND NEW one, and none of them ever made a difference, so took the new one off to put back an older one and save the new one for later.
So now the only other thing I can think of, causing it to drink oil (and flavor doesn't make a difference, it drinks it all the same), is bad valve seals.
Because, the engine has no blow by at all out the oil fill! It does have 416,000 miles, so I know it will be burning some oil even with new seals, but 2 quarts every 200-300 miles is really starting to **** me off. I did an oil change on it today, witch consisted of replacing the filter....that's it. It always has new oil in it!
Starting cold *sometimes* it'll just pouf out a small puff of blue smoke, nothing more. Most of the time tho, it puffs out a chug of black smoke.
Today was bad, I had constant blue smoke most of the day on the highway, did about 200 miles today, all highway.
I noticed just running empty, all of a sudden I started noticing a big cloud of blue smoke fallowing me from the exhaust, it lasted for about 15 min, then completely cleared? While later, it started again, but just a very light steady stream of blue smoke for over an hour.
Smokes dark black when you floor it though.
Idiot stupid me, didn't replace the valve seals when I had the heads off the dang thing, now i'm tempted to try and do them right onboard the van!
I know i'm gonna need a spring compressor tool, but does anyone know if they make adapters for glow plug holes, to plug in compressor air into the cylinder, to keep the valve up when I remove the spring?? I know they have that for gassers....
Ifyou have a good compression tester with the quick coupler system you can adapt that over to use with an air compressor and will work good.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,554
Likes: 9
From: Northern Arizona
I think it was mentioned above that the glow plug port would be needed to thread in the base of the spring compressor. If you needed to run compressed air into the cylinder to hold the valves up, how would you compress the valve spring? Also, what psi is needed to hold valves in place? All this in a van too, oh wow.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 2
I think it was mentioned above that the glow plug port would be needed to thread in the base of the spring compressor. If you needed to run compressed air into the cylinder to hold the valves up, how would you compress the valve spring? Also, what psi is needed to hold valves in place? All this in a van too, oh wow.
Spring compressor would need to be attached at the rocker bolt hole. Air would be applied to the glow plug hole!!!
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,005
Likes: 7
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Ok, so as most of you might know, i've been inside this engine before.... Did the head gaskets on it last year.
With how CLEAN the inside of this engine was, I would be very surprised if it had anything major stuck/gunked inside.
I have heard my self alot of good results from that Auto RX stuff, I should give it a try, I mean what do I have to loose on an engine with this many miles...?
Second, heres what I'm talking about as far as a valve spring compressor is.
Neat little thing, doesn't need to be bolted to anything.
I do have a new never used Diesel compression tester, before going ahead with the valve seal job, I am going to do a full compression test, and depending on results, that will decide whenever I proceed with this or not.
The engine runs to good, sounds to healthy and gets way to good mpg for it to have low compression, so i'm assuming that;s not an issue, but better safe than sorry right?
If the engine is indeed tired, hate saying this, but I might just tuff out the van till this winter, store it for winter, and next summer I'll fix up real quick my nice Club Wagon and drive that one.....
However, I really don't feel like swapping my IP and injectors from one van to the other, but the club wagon needs a tune up before going on the road though.
With how CLEAN the inside of this engine was, I would be very surprised if it had anything major stuck/gunked inside.
I have heard my self alot of good results from that Auto RX stuff, I should give it a try, I mean what do I have to loose on an engine with this many miles...?
Second, heres what I'm talking about as far as a valve spring compressor is.
Neat little thing, doesn't need to be bolted to anything.
I do have a new never used Diesel compression tester, before going ahead with the valve seal job, I am going to do a full compression test, and depending on results, that will decide whenever I proceed with this or not.
The engine runs to good, sounds to healthy and gets way to good mpg for it to have low compression, so i'm assuming that;s not an issue, but better safe than sorry right?
If the engine is indeed tired, hate saying this, but I might just tuff out the van till this winter, store it for winter, and next summer I'll fix up real quick my nice Club Wagon and drive that one.....
However, I really don't feel like swapping my IP and injectors from one van to the other, but the club wagon needs a tune up before going on the road though.
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