Is a battery a battery?
#31
08-06-2013, 04:58 PM
Plz explain what u mean by this.
He was saying if something goes wrong with a bigger battery than the vehicle is rated for, there is a good chance of melting wires.
Basically same reason you upgrade a charge wire on a alt when you put in a higher amp one. Don't want to melt the factory stuff because its not rated for it. When I add a higher CCA battery than stock, I upgrade the battery cables all the way to the starter.
He was saying if something goes wrong with a bigger battery than the vehicle is rated for, there is a good chance of melting wires.
Basically same reason you upgrade a charge wire on a alt when you put in a higher amp one. Don't want to melt the factory stuff because its not rated for it. When I add a higher CCA battery than stock, I upgrade the battery cables all the way to the starter.
My dad dropped a metal wrench one time on top of a brand new battery that he was installing in our trailer, connecting both terminals. Lots of fireworks and it ended up melting about half of a terminal.
He probably shortened the life of that battery by a bit too. lol
#32
08-06-2013, 08:27 PM
I used to always look for the highest amp ones but not anymore, now I look at the name mainly. I like the ones mentioned above also.
Those $300 batteries are a waste also, all they do is start your truck, I can get 3 of them for under that that will last 15 years which is statistically longer than most people own a vehicle from the purchase time to sales, wrecking, or otherwise. If you put one in a 10 year old truck it will never pay off.
Those $300 batteries are a waste also, all they do is start your truck, I can get 3 of them for under that that will last 15 years which is statistically longer than most people own a vehicle from the purchase time to sales, wrecking, or otherwise. If you put one in a 10 year old truck it will never pay off.
I know from experience that diesels(especially 6.0's) are much more sensitive to battery, and charging conditions. The gassers are more forgiving, and better batteries may not be worth it. If any of you do go for the DH Platinums, make sure they are the AGM type. The last time I looked to put one in another vehicle, different sizes were of different construction.
#33
08-06-2013, 08:35 PM
#34
08-06-2013, 08:43 PM
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That is very true as I soon learned when I got my 6.0. You need good power for the FICM to operate properly. A weak battery can lead to a no start rather than a hard start. My FICM was weak also so I now have a Bulletproof Diesel 6 phase FICM, new batteries and new high amp alternator and wiring. Have had no issues since I changed. The charge difference is noticeable with the upgraded alternator. The headlights used to dim at idle, no longer.
#35
08-06-2013, 10:08 PM
That is true depending on the difference between the ampacity of the OEM battery, and the AM. My X came with Motorcraft 750CCA batteries from the factory IIRC, and the DH Platimuns are rated at 930CCA each. If the starter locked up, and any of the components fry with the DH batteries, they would have fried with the stock batteries also. You won't melt anything unless you don't realize you have a problem, and engage the locked up starter for a long period of time. All the other circuitry is protected with fuses/fusible links so they are protected regardless of the available power.
The most important things my batteries do is start the truck. My truck see's 120+* here in the summer in Vegas, and as low as -30* at my place in Utah. After 20+ years in Vegas, I've never had a battery last more than 3 years in any machine I've owned. The Die Hard Platinums perform under these conditions better than any other battery I've ever used. I sprung for the Platinums because this is the 4th set of batteries I've gone through since the Excursion was new. A little extra cost now is worth peace of mind to me. I'll do anything within reason to avoid a potential breakdown, as I travel a lot. I could have traded a couple of pairs in for warranty, but I'd rather spend a little money for something better, than be handed another POS for free, and wonder how soon it will fail. Time will tell, but the Platinums have a 48 month free replacement warranty on them, and 100 month pro-rated, so I won't be paying for batteries for 2 more years if something does go wrong. Spend the money now, and cry once, as they say.
I know from experience that diesels(especially 6.0's) are much more sensitive to battery, and charging conditions. The gassers are more forgiving, and better batteries may not be worth it. If any of you do go for the DH Platinums, make sure they are the AGM type. The last time I looked to put one in another vehicle, different sizes were of different construction.
The most important things my batteries do is start the truck. My truck see's 120+* here in the summer in Vegas, and as low as -30* at my place in Utah. After 20+ years in Vegas, I've never had a battery last more than 3 years in any machine I've owned. The Die Hard Platinums perform under these conditions better than any other battery I've ever used. I sprung for the Platinums because this is the 4th set of batteries I've gone through since the Excursion was new. A little extra cost now is worth peace of mind to me. I'll do anything within reason to avoid a potential breakdown, as I travel a lot. I could have traded a couple of pairs in for warranty, but I'd rather spend a little money for something better, than be handed another POS for free, and wonder how soon it will fail. Time will tell, but the Platinums have a 48 month free replacement warranty on them, and 100 month pro-rated, so I won't be paying for batteries for 2 more years if something does go wrong. Spend the money now, and cry once, as they say.
I know from experience that diesels(especially 6.0's) are much more sensitive to battery, and charging conditions. The gassers are more forgiving, and better batteries may not be worth it. If any of you do go for the DH Platinums, make sure they are the AGM type. The last time I looked to put one in another vehicle, different sizes were of different construction.
#36
08-06-2013, 10:11 PM
That is very true as I soon learned when I got my 6.0. You need good power for the FICM to operate properly. A weak battery can lead to a no start rather than a hard start. My FICM was weak also so I now have a Bulletproof Diesel 6 phase FICM, new batteries and new high amp alternator and wiring. Have had no issues since I changed. The charge difference is noticeable with the upgraded alternator. The headlights used to dim at idle, no longer.
#38
08-06-2013, 10:47 PM
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There is a noticeable difference between the 7.3 Excursion I had and the 6.0 I have now in regards to voltage requirements. I was pretty comfortable with the 7.3 in all aspects, had to learn a whole new animal with the 6.0!
#39
08-06-2013, 10:58 PM
I may have been exaggerating just a little bit, but it is my understanding that things only draw the amperage that they need. Like when you install a beefed up alternator, that makes more amps, doesn't cause problems. I guess you are saying that a defective starter will draw more than it is supposed to, I've never had that happen, usually they just die.
In any case I retract my last statement.
In any case I retract my last statement.
#40
08-07-2013, 12:51 AM
i've been very happy with 1050CCA Walmart battery's they run about $109 locally. 3 year free replacement that i have only had to use once with one truck thus far. GREAT cranking power at -30F and no block heater plugged in. i like to get the most CCA i can find!
i stopped buying optimas after the last one took a crap after a year and it had never been run down once. not what they used to be.
i stopped buying optimas after the last one took a crap after a year and it had never been run down once. not what they used to be.
#41
08-07-2013, 02:04 AM
I have AGM batteries on my boat and for good reason, but if your not beating the stuffings out of your truck Off roading) no need for them. LA or SLA batteries are actually a better choice for automotive applications because they are designed for charge rate at a higher RPM and they are designed to provide more cranking amps by design. AGM's are better for Boats because they use lots of juice when the engines are not running (pumps, radios, electronics, etc) or at low RPM's (trolling) so AGM's work well for that application and... can really take a pounding. AGM's are great for durability and can be mounted in any position.
Batteries 101- Learn About Batteries, Battery Facts, History and Care at Battery World
From a search
The majority of car batteries are created by 3 manufacturers - Delphi, Exide and Johnson Controls Industries. Delphi makes some EverStart models sold in Walmart and ACDelco. Johnson Control Industries makes Duralast seen in Autozone stores, Diehard - sold in Sears, Kirkland - the Costco brand, Motorcraft - which Ford sells, some of the EverStarts, and Interstate. Exide makes Exide batteries, Champion, Napa and even a % of the EverStart batteries.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Batteries 101- Learn About Batteries, Battery Facts, History and Care at Battery World
From a search
The majority of car batteries are created by 3 manufacturers - Delphi, Exide and Johnson Controls Industries. Delphi makes some EverStart models sold in Walmart and ACDelco. Johnson Control Industries makes Duralast seen in Autozone stores, Diehard - sold in Sears, Kirkland - the Costco brand, Motorcraft - which Ford sells, some of the EverStarts, and Interstate. Exide makes Exide batteries, Champion, Napa and even a % of the EverStart batteries.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Your link refers to rechargeable portable batteries. Not automotive.
The RPM of an engine is not indicative of the rate of charge or the voltage going to a battery. That is a function of the alternator.
All batteries are designed with a certain price point for each level of quality and capacity. A lead acid is not automatically higher CCA than a AGM of the same group size. It depends on what you want to pay.
AGM batteries are just as useful in the automotive world as they are on boats. Advantages are a much lower rate of self discharge, no acid leaks to corrode terminals and wires, are either fully or partially deep cycle, and take abuse and shocks well.
When someone adds air compressors, various off road lights, winches, inverters, and aftermarket stereo and DVD systems to a vehicle such as the Excursion, The draws on the batteries can easily start to look like draws in a boat.
As far as taking shocks, it is easy to see a collision where the battery has failed from internal impact damage, but the vehicle was still drivable. I've seen this more than once as a volunteer firefighter. AGM have a greater chance of survival.
The disadvantage is cost.
As far as amperage is concerned, a AGM or lead acid battery (and almost every other type of battery out there) are victims of internal resistance. Internal resistance limits the amount of amperes of current that a battery can release in a short condition. Manufacturers alter the number of plates, the thickness and type of lead, and the types of electrolyte such as Gel (Jellied sulfuric acid base), H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid), or AGM (Absorbed Glass matt which is fiberglass matt between the plates that is saturated with acid) to either give a greater or less current capacity . The main and easiest method is to increase the surface area of the lead by adding more plates.
Loosely said, the maximum amount it can deliver is the CCA.
In any case, adding more lead, different lead, more surface area, and different electrolytes will add to the cost and make a battery with higher amperage ratings. This basic idea applies to all automotive batteries of all types.
#42
08-07-2013, 10:10 AM
Lead Driver
Those $300 batteries are a waste also, all they do is start your truck, I can get 3 of them for under that that will last 15 years which is statistically longer than most people own a vehicle from the purchase time to sales, wrecking, or otherwise. If you put one in a 10 year old truck it will never pay off.
Been running red tops since and love them 
#43
08-07-2013, 12:01 PM
Your link refers to rechargeable portable batteries. Not automotive.
The RPM of an engine is not indicative of the rate of charge or the voltage going to a battery. That is a function of the alternator.
All batteries are designed with a certain price point for each level of quality and capacity. A lead acid is not automatically higher CCA than a AGM of the same group size. It depends on what you want to pay.
AGM batteries are just as useful in the automotive world as they are on boats. Advantages are a much lower rate of self discharge, no acid leaks to corrode terminals and wires, are either fully or partially deep cycle, and take abuse and shocks well.
When someone adds air compressors, various off road lights, winches, inverters, and aftermarket stereo and DVD systems to a vehicle such as the Excursion, The draws on the batteries can easily start to look like draws in a boat.
As far as taking shocks, it is easy to see a collision where the battery has failed from internal impact damage, but the vehicle was still drivable. I've seen this more than once as a volunteer firefighter. AGM have a greater chance of survival.
The disadvantage is cost.
As far as amperage is concerned, a AGM or lead acid battery (and almost every other type of battery out there) are victims of internal resistance. Internal resistance limits the amount of amperes of current that a battery can release in a short condition. Manufacturers alter the number of plates, the thickness and type of lead, and the types of electrolyte such as Gel (Jellied sulfuric acid base), H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid), or AGM (Absorbed Glass matt which is fiberglass matt between the plates that is saturated with acid) to either give a greater or less current capacity . The main and easiest method is to increase the surface area of the lead by adding more plates.
Loosely said, the maximum amount it can deliver is the CCA.
In any case, adding more lead, different lead, more surface area, and different electrolytes will add to the cost and make a battery with higher amperage ratings. This basic idea applies to all automotive batteries of all types.
The RPM of an engine is not indicative of the rate of charge or the voltage going to a battery. That is a function of the alternator.
All batteries are designed with a certain price point for each level of quality and capacity. A lead acid is not automatically higher CCA than a AGM of the same group size. It depends on what you want to pay.
AGM batteries are just as useful in the automotive world as they are on boats. Advantages are a much lower rate of self discharge, no acid leaks to corrode terminals and wires, are either fully or partially deep cycle, and take abuse and shocks well.
When someone adds air compressors, various off road lights, winches, inverters, and aftermarket stereo and DVD systems to a vehicle such as the Excursion, The draws on the batteries can easily start to look like draws in a boat.
As far as taking shocks, it is easy to see a collision where the battery has failed from internal impact damage, but the vehicle was still drivable. I've seen this more than once as a volunteer firefighter. AGM have a greater chance of survival.
The disadvantage is cost.
As far as amperage is concerned, a AGM or lead acid battery (and almost every other type of battery out there) are victims of internal resistance. Internal resistance limits the amount of amperes of current that a battery can release in a short condition. Manufacturers alter the number of plates, the thickness and type of lead, and the types of electrolyte such as Gel (Jellied sulfuric acid base), H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid), or AGM (Absorbed Glass matt which is fiberglass matt between the plates that is saturated with acid) to either give a greater or less current capacity . The main and easiest method is to increase the surface area of the lead by adding more plates.
Loosely said, the maximum amount it can deliver is the CCA.
In any case, adding more lead, different lead, more surface area, and different electrolytes will add to the cost and make a battery with higher amperage ratings. This basic idea applies to all automotive batteries of all types.
RPM of the drive mechanism is directly linked "by design" to any elecrtical producing device, including but not limited to alternators, generators, stators,
Alternator minimum RPM - varies with design features, but about
1000-1500 shaft RPM or 500-800 engine RPM. Most automotive alternators have a 2-3:1 step-up ratio in the pulleys that drive them. Stator size is roughly analogous to gasoline engine displacement; if you have a big fat alternator, it will give you a large portion of its total power at low speed, whereas you might have to wind a small alternator (or engine)
to a higher RPM to get them to produce similar results. Note that the
commencement of charging (once the alternator is turning) and the lowest
speed at which it will charge are two different things, and that the
regulator may want to see the engine turning strongly enough before it
starts loading the alternator. "One-wire" regulators rely on a speed
signal from the stator to tell them to start charging, so alternators
with this style of regulator (a popular modification for the Delco SI
series) have a serious "dead spot" where you have to rev them up to get
them going at first.
1000-1500 shaft RPM or 500-800 engine RPM. Most automotive alternators have a 2-3:1 step-up ratio in the pulleys that drive them. Stator size is roughly analogous to gasoline engine displacement; if you have a big fat alternator, it will give you a large portion of its total power at low speed, whereas you might have to wind a small alternator (or engine)
to a higher RPM to get them to produce similar results. Note that the
commencement of charging (once the alternator is turning) and the lowest
speed at which it will charge are two different things, and that the
regulator may want to see the engine turning strongly enough before it
starts loading the alternator. "One-wire" regulators rely on a speed
signal from the stator to tell them to start charging, so alternators
with this style of regulator (a popular modification for the Delco SI
series) have a serious "dead spot" where you have to rev them up to get
them going at first.
I agree with the price point contention but dollars are not indicative of battery design or quality.... in all cases. These days it relates to lead and how pure it is, as well as the amount of plates. It does however correlate to LA batteries for automotive applications due to the highly competitive market.
If AGM's are as "useful" in the automotive arena then the market would reflect that. However It does not... but it does for the marine/RV applications. I will state I am a fan of AGM batteries but I can tell you they have a different impedance than FLA or SLA batteries therefore their charge and discharge rate is different and not all battery chargers and charging systems are AGM compatible to complicate matters. In addition you must check with the manufacturer about equalizing... not all recommend this. Have a bad automotive regulator and you can kiss that AGM goodbye.
The electrical advantage of an AGM is the amount and frequency of discharging over the life of the battery. AGM's can outlast a LA batteries for this reason however LA batteries can and do last as long as AGM's when kept at a high charge and equalized often or as needed. LA Batteries used as secondary back up power quite often last 10+ years.
RV's Marine, applications are perfect for AGM's but for 95% of automotive applications your wasting money.
#44
08-07-2013, 12:47 PM
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My Costco Kirklands died today after my wife left they keys on all night, took them back and they didn't even test them just gave me my money back. I went with Walmart's batteries this time since they are everywhere on the planet and we are always on the road. Plus my Costco membership expired and I didn't have a choice
#45
08-07-2013, 03:39 PM
I bought a yellow top Optima when they first came out and as I bought and sold cars I always kept it. When I traded cars that was always part of the deal. They take theirs and I take mine. That thing went through at least 40 different cars in 2 years and I would still have it now but I had a 240 with an RB20T swap and the starter went out. When I went to trade with the guy it was either take a chance of keeping my battery and hoping we could jump start it or let it go. I let it go Been running red tops since and love them
Been running red tops since and love them