I currently have a 1974 351 Windsor and C6 in my 54. The rings are going on the 351 so I am looking to get this thing back on the road with the least cost possible. The current engine is bone stock with the exception of an edelbrock intake and 600 holley. I am thinking of getting a late 80's to mid nineties used 351 and putting the edelbrock manifold and holley carb on the used 351. The guy that will probably put the motor in says to go with a newer 302 with EFI. I am not looking for a race car just a peppy dependable driver. Does anyone have any input on either engine or what years to look for? Thanks.

 

If you want to keep the 351 intake and carb, you'll have to stick with a 351. 1986-91 EFI 302 has a roller cam, which is nice. But you would need a 302 intake. You said least cost.....

 

Is the guy you have picked out working by the hour? Does he have a "clean, one owner" used efi 302 for sale? Changing out a 351 for a 302 will mean new exhaust and efi means a whole big pile of expensive electrical upgrades. Run, don't walk away from this guy. He has your wallet in his sights.

Even a newer 351 will have it's issues. You can swap over your existing intake and carb, but the steel roller cam will require at the very least a different distributor gear to match. Better to swap the dist to something better. Replacing an engine is never cheap, no matter which way you go. But no matter what, stick with the 351 to achieve your lowest possible changeover cost goals. Unless you can pick up a good, used engine for around a couple hundred bucks (that might be tough), it may be just as cheap in the end to rebuild what you have (within a few hundred dollars). You'll still end up with a ton of "while I'm here, I might as well..." costs.

 

Are you sure the rings are toast? Has someone done a leakdown test to confirm? Late model engines usually don't need rings for ~ 200K miles. If you have compression issues, it's more likely the valves. Get a leakdown test done before deciding what to do. If the rings are worn out or cracked and the valves are good, then it might be most economical to buy a remanufactured short block from a major rebuilder like Jasper that comes with more than a 30 day warrantee. Next most economical or if the heads are also leaking and in need of rebuilding would be to replace the 351 with a 91 or newer 4.6 L Mod motor and OD tranny. They are plentiful in the salvage yard and sell for as little as 400.00 complete (or better yet buy a complete and running Crown Vic or Mark VIII that's been T boned or rear ended for a few hundred dollars). There are conversion plug and play wiring harnesses available and/or instructions on the internet on how to cut and splice the stock harness out of the donor (with any EFI engine be sure you get the ECU and harness from the same vehicle with it). The mod motors are very durable, economical, dependable and the power can be nearly doubled with just an ECU reflash and/or a few bolt on parts. You can probably sell your present 351 with the intake, carb and tranny as is for most if not all the cost of the new engine and tranny.

 

To answer some questions. The guy isn't trying to sell me a motor or run up shop charges he just said it may be something to consider. I know my intake can only be used on a 351. I just mentioned that because that would keep costs down on a 351. I had a leak down test to confirm the rings were bad. I would like to keep it carbureted not EFI to keep it simple. I am leaning toward using a newer 351. All input is appreciated.

 

I like the idea of Ax's to get a remanufactured short block from a reputable rebuilder with a decent warrantee. I would have the heads rebuilt too, and it would involve MUCH less work/labor. Keeping you exhaust, motor mounts, wiring, intake and carb, linkage, trans, etc. It should cost much less and end up being a great driver for many miles to come.

 

EFI is actually a lot less complicated than carbs to set up and run, plug in a few connectors and let the computer do the rest. It just takes a different open mindset. EFI s far superior, more ecomomical and can be hopped up with a laptop instead of tearing the engine apart and replacing a lot of expensive parts and hope they work together. We can go down fighting and kicking, but the reality is that the government is soon going to legislate our traditional engines out of existence. Ethanol free gas is almost extinct, high octane is going right along with it. Traditional carbs are already having difficulties with E10, and many municipalities are forcing E15 and some places E25. The Feds want E85 to become the norm. 107+ octane is considered "racing gasoline" and only sold at a few places at up to 7.00 - 10.00 a gallon. If we want to be able to drive rather than just building museum pieces and lawn ornaments, we are going to have to embrace the newer technologies.

 

Good points Ax, I am sure you are correct on this. I have been looking at some aftermarket EFI conversions - fairly pricey but in the long run probably a good way to go.

 

A '74 351 (depending somewhat whether it is a truck or car motor) is smogged to death. A newer (formerly EFI) 351 has the roller cam and such but it is optimized for EFI. If you can get better heads (earlier) for the existing 351, get a ring job and get the distributor curved for power (not smog) you'll have a real runner. No matter what, a standard rebuild with bore, pistons, rungs, crank cut, bearings, and a valve job with minimal new parts is close to $2k.

 

Given your intent to keep it as low cost as possible, I'd try to find a friendly (and accommodating) private seller on Craigslist or similar that is parting out or, a complete vehicle at low cost with a 351. Sometimes you can find a well kept hobby vehicle that was totaled. I once scored a very nice Windsor on the cheap from an off-road truck that rolled.

I'd want to see it running where the seller is willing to let you:

Hear it hitting on all 8
No evil noises
Oil reasonably clean and free of water (milky)
Coolant free of exhaust debris or bubbles
Read plugs / compression test etc.

The fewer miles the better although good historic maintenance is worth an awful lot. Unless you find an engine that is close in year and application to yours, plan to swap some parts (the point being labor cost). I guess the Oil Pan sump is the largest item that may need to be dealt with.

After purchase, I'd yank the aluminum timing chain cover, replace the timing chain/gears and inspect the casting for corrosion (common problem) in the water pump cavity.

Just my $.02

Good Luck

 

Hey Oxford,
Hmmmm.. Personally I'd keep it as a 351 - there is a lot of after market support & it is still a very popular engine. We have a 351W in our '50 F1 - We paid $500 for a remanufactured short block & then bought an Edelbrock Top End Kit from Summit. We were looking for some HP but not a racer - we settled on the 400HP kit which was around $2000.

I looked locally in Craigslist tonight & found an existing 351W for $1000 with 149K miles on them - but you don't know what you are getting. Seems like you can rebuild the one you have for $2000, get a souped up one from Edelbrock/Summit for $2500 + installation/build or go pot luck for $1000 or a bit less.

None of that is cheap but it depends on what you are looking for..
Good luck over there.

Ben in Austin
1950 F1 (351W/AOD)

 

Topm, aftermarket EFI is NOT the way to go. It's only a computerized carb, It's buying a fancy new saddle for a broken down plow horse and expecting it to as good as a thoroughbred race horse. To be truly efficient you need the combination of direct port fuel injection and individual coilpack ignition working together. It's much cheaper and better and easier to install a complete late model engine than try to apply a bandaid to an outdated engine. Like I said they are not any more difficult to work with it just requires opening up one's mind and learning a few new tricks, not unlike learning to use a computer or smart phone.

 

Swapping a 4.6 in place of the 351 is most certainly not going to be the less expensive of the options. Nothing is going to interchange or be usable. You will be starting a complete new project from scratch, throwing away everything you have currently. Even if you do find a $400 used engine/trans combo, the expense of setting it all up and working out the electrics will break the bank. And if the day comes that the feds come to confiscate my carburetors, they'll have to take my guns first.

 

That's a rumor pushed by those who are afraid of electronics. There are several members on here running the 4.6 that have hacked the original wiring harness for little to no extra cost or you can buy an aftermarket plug and play harness for a couple hundred bucks, and more are on the way that will reduce the price more. You will save the cost of the harness in the first year in reduced gas cost (with higher performance). I only suggested getting the tranny as well as that way you don't have the issues of adapting a different tranny and gaining an OD. The mod motor is being supported more and more by the aftermarket.

 

The new 5.0L is getting more support. The 4.6/5.4/6.8 are not. Trickflow is the only company that makes aftermarket cylinder heads and intakes for the 4.6L. Ford Racing only has OEM blocks, heads and intakes.

Quite frankly the 302/351W are getting much more parts every year. Me personally and I'm a big Ford guy, I wouldn't even touch a 4.6/5.4L. For a mod engine it would be the new 5.0L or nothing.

The mod engines are not nice things to work on. Look up a timing chain replacement and you'll see what I mean. They also like to break the 8mm exhaust bolts off. Usually change 1-3 manifolds a week at work. Plus they are nearly the same size as a 460.

The other main issue is tuning. Ford has always had many different computers for the same model and often they use different "programming" between them. The avg aftermarket tuner only has access to the basic settings. For a swap you should have full access to the computer and your only going to get that with a mustang one. The mustang is pretty much the only Ford vehicle to nearly have all the computers reverse engineered by modders. Any other OBD2 Ford computer is a crap shoot to have full modding capability cause you will need to disable the rear o2 sensors (o2 simulators are garbage and don't work on the newer engines) , modify the fuel tables and probably disable PATS.