My new Powerstop brakes before and after
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 451
Likes: 5
From: Raleigh, NC.
This is a good deal for this kit. Also sometimes is good to put a fresh set of calipers on after lots of miles as I am sure most of us don't replace or rebuild them. Fresh new calipers with new parts will function more efficiently and might help relieve some heat issues where some are slow to respond to movement, etc.
I think next time I will go this route but will keep checking back to see how you do over time.
I have the Powerstop Cryo's now and the Hawk SD pads and so far, so good. I think I only have about 10K on them though. Been blowing through rotors every 50K ish due to warping.
I think next time I will go this route but will keep checking back to see how you do over time.
I have the Powerstop Cryo's now and the Hawk SD pads and so far, so good. I think I only have about 10K on them though. Been blowing through rotors every 50K ish due to warping.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
Likes: 2
From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
It's not about the rotors, other then ensuring they are mounted to the lowest runout. All pulsation is due to thickness variation in the rotor, typically worn by the highest runout of the rotor touching the pad when not braking. It's aggravated by the rotor abrasive ness of the pads, so if you are doing more driving then stopping the off-brake wear wears the high spot down. If you have higher abrasive pads so the on-brake conditions wear the rotors true more then the off-brake conditions you will not have an issue, well, except if the rotors have a high installed runout.
The main issue with the Excursion and '99-04 Superdutys was the OE pads were too low in abrasion unless the vehicles were worked in a commercial setting. For the way they were publicly used, a more rotor abrasive pad like was used after '05 would have been the better choice. The Hawk, Motorcraft, and some other aftermarket choices have demonstrated that.
The main issue with the Excursion and '99-04 Superdutys was the OE pads were too low in abrasion unless the vehicles were worked in a commercial setting. For the way they were publicly used, a more rotor abrasive pad like was used after '05 would have been the better choice. The Hawk, Motorcraft, and some other aftermarket choices have demonstrated that.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,798
Likes: 14
From: Mt. Shasta California
It's not about the rotors, other then ensuring they are mounted to the lowest runout. All pulsation is due to thickness variation in the rotor, typically worn by the highest runout of the rotor touching the pad when not braking. It's aggravated by the rotor abrasive ness of the pads, so if you are doing more driving then stopping the off-brake wear wears the high spot down. If you have higher abrasive pads so the on-brake conditions wear the rotors true more then the off-brake conditions you will not have an issue, well, except if the rotors have a high installed runout.
The main issue with the Excursion and '99-04 Superdutys was the OE pads were too low in abrasion unless the vehicles were worked in a commercial setting. For the way they were publicly used, a more rotor abrasive pad like was used after '05 would have been the better choice. The Hawk, Motorcraft, and some other aftermarket choices have demonstrated that.
The main issue with the Excursion and '99-04 Superdutys was the OE pads were too low in abrasion unless the vehicles were worked in a commercial setting. For the way they were publicly used, a more rotor abrasive pad like was used after '05 would have been the better choice. The Hawk, Motorcraft, and some other aftermarket choices have demonstrated that.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 2
From: Flat Rock, MI
It's not about the rotors, other then ensuring they are mounted to the lowest runout. All pulsation is due to thickness variation in the rotor, typically worn by the highest runout of the rotor touching the pad when not braking. It's aggravated by the rotor abrasive ness of the pads, so if you are doing more driving then stopping the off-brake wear wears the high spot down. If you have higher abrasive pads so the on-brake conditions wear the rotors true more then the off-brake conditions you will not have an issue, well, except if the rotors have a high installed runout.
The main issue with the Excursion and '99-04 Superdutys was the OE pads were too low in abrasion unless the vehicles were worked in a commercial setting. For the way they were publicly used, a more rotor abrasive pad like was used after '05 would have been the better choice. The Hawk, Motorcraft, and some other aftermarket choices have demonstrated that.
The main issue with the Excursion and '99-04 Superdutys was the OE pads were too low in abrasion unless the vehicles were worked in a commercial setting. For the way they were publicly used, a more rotor abrasive pad like was used after '05 would have been the better choice. The Hawk, Motorcraft, and some other aftermarket choices have demonstrated that.
I just put on new rotors and semi metallics and light braking it feels good, heavy braking is terrible.
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,420
Likes: 16
From: Ouray, CO
I think he means, any high spots on the pads/rotor that touch while brake is off - will wear themselves down as you drive. So, if you drive long distances "some" of the high spot(s) will get rubbed down. But, if you do lots of city driving, you use the brakes more thus it allows any unevenness to grow.
Not sure I agree, but I think I see what he's trying to say..
Not sure I agree, but I think I see what he's trying to say..
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
Likes: 2
From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
I think he means, any high spots on the pads/rotor that touch while brake is off - will wear themselves down as you drive. So, if you drive long distances "some" of the high spot(s) will get rubbed down. But, if you do lots of city driving, you use the brakes more thus it allows any unevenness to grow.
Not sure I agree, but I think I see what he's trying to say..
Not sure I agree, but I think I see what he's trying to say..
And why it's important to have good seal rollback of the caliper pistons and ole hysteresis in the slide pins. You want the pads back away from the rotor.
It's why around 2001 the "V" springs were developed for the top of the pads in the Akebono calipers and why the K-H caliper brackets of 2005 and beyond have the strong pushback clips in the brackets.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
Likes: 2
From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
Google: Raybestos Brake Tech School, Part One: Rotors Don't Warp
Or not. You might come across an article that also states the is not flat.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,798
Likes: 14
From: Mt. Shasta California
.............not buying it. The pad re-tractor springs are to increase gas mileage, prevent squealing, and keep the heat down on the pads. Also, I don't believe everything I read.Well, I got to "tires might not be torqued right" tires?, but I had to laugh and quit reading. Almost everyone knows you shouldn't torque the first nut with all the rest loose, I'm just not buying any of the article. (I did go back and read to whole thing but he sounded like a novice).
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
Likes: 2
From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
Since I was there during the discussion about the design and implementation of the V springs I think I know their purpose. And the change with the new design.
He may have been a novice, don't know him. But there have been so many trade articles surprised you haven't read them.
He may have been a novice, don't know him. But there have been so many trade articles surprised you haven't read them.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,798
Likes: 14
From: Mt. Shasta California
Stick a fork in me, I am done.
Since I was there during the discussion about the design and implementation of the V springs I think I know their purpose. And the change with the new design.
He may have been a novice, don't know him. But there have been so many trade articles surprised you haven't read them.
He may have been a novice, don't know him. But there have been so many trade articles surprised you haven't read them.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
Likes: 2
From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
Like in the other thread I could post links to SAE technical papers, Bendix training literature or the many tech articles written in the trades by Larry Carley, a prolific technical writer. But as you said, you're not going to read them.
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 451
Likes: 5
From: Raleigh, NC.
Seems those springs are not working for me if my rotors get to a severely warped stage after about 50K miles.
I do normal driving between some city and highway, mostly suburban combination.
I think there is some merit in the calipers ability to retract. If they don't, I think the pads drag and cause excessive heat buildup which can then lead to warping once you have to jam on your brakes for those that decide to cross in front of you or stop unexpectedly.
I always lube my slider pins well with high temp brake grease. I can see the wear on them. I probably should have considered buying new pins and will do so next time. But next time, likely over 200K miles, I might just go ahead and replace the calipers with this kit.
I wonder if it is possible to fit up the 2005 model calipers in place of the 2002 model year if they are improved? Is that what I am getting here?
I do normal driving between some city and highway, mostly suburban combination.
I think there is some merit in the calipers ability to retract. If they don't, I think the pads drag and cause excessive heat buildup which can then lead to warping once you have to jam on your brakes for those that decide to cross in front of you or stop unexpectedly.
I always lube my slider pins well with high temp brake grease. I can see the wear on them. I probably should have considered buying new pins and will do so next time. But next time, likely over 200K miles, I might just go ahead and replace the calipers with this kit.
I wonder if it is possible to fit up the 2005 model calipers in place of the 2002 model year if they are improved? Is that what I am getting here?
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
Likes: 2
From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
The V spring force is too light and it can be easily overcome with sliding pin stiction (rubber bushing or rust), piston hang up, or rust development where the steel backs fit in the bracket. If the pad composition is not rotor abrasive enough, like the OE pads, or there is excessive rotor runout, then they will not perform well anyway. They will only help push the pads back to the amount of caliper seal rollback.
In all the tests we did we never saw these rotors "heat warp" and we ran tests over 1400F. If you have access to a heat gun you should check how hot they actually get in your style of driving.
The 05 calipers and brackets do not fit.
In all the tests we did we never saw these rotors "heat warp" and we ran tests over 1400F. If you have access to a heat gun you should check how hot they actually get in your style of driving.
The 05 calipers and brackets do not fit.
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