TFI system problems
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TFI system problems
I replaced my old system with a mounted heat sink on one side of the radiator. I had to splice the wires to the end connector so as to lengthen them so the connector can reach the TFI module and did so one wire at a time thinking they probably have a specific order to them. I got everything connected and I can't start her. Prior to making the conversion she started just fine when cold and ran well, but would not start once she was hot until she cooled down a bit. I thought it might be that I crossed two wires to the end connector because two came apart as I was attaching others. I reconnected them but may have not done it in the right order.
Any advice? How can I tell which wire (there are six black wires that come out of the connector and go into the harness) is which if there in fact a correct order to them?
Any advice? How can I tell which wire (there are six black wires that come out of the connector and go into the harness) is which if there in fact a correct order to them?
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
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From: Exmore, VA
Ok, yours is an 85, so let me see what I can find. I assume it is probably EFI. The problem I see right off is the change in module styles. 1985-89 had the module on the side of the distributor with 3 pins up into the distributor and 6 pins on the harness plug.
I read the 6 to the module as (and I do not have a sequence for them)
Black, circuit #57 - ground
Dark green with yellow, circuit #11 - coil -
White with light blue hash, circuit #20 - coil and ignition module +
Red with light blue, circuit #32 - start signal to module
Yellow with light green dot, circuit #324 - SPOUT (has shorting bar or connector)
Dark blue, circuit #349 - PIP (profile ignition pickup)
11 is on coil - and goes to the tachometer if installed
20 is live when key is on run or start
32 is live when cranking
57 goes to pin 20 on ECM and ground
324 goes to pin 36 on ECM
349 goes to pin 56 on the ECM
The three into the pickup, one probably got power through the module, if it follows as the newer engines, the other two will be crank and cam sensor outputs (difference is the pulse, one shutter is narrower then the rest).
Good luck with it!
I read the 6 to the module as (and I do not have a sequence for them)
Black, circuit #57 - ground
Dark green with yellow, circuit #11 - coil -
White with light blue hash, circuit #20 - coil and ignition module +
Red with light blue, circuit #32 - start signal to module
Yellow with light green dot, circuit #324 - SPOUT (has shorting bar or connector)
Dark blue, circuit #349 - PIP (profile ignition pickup)
11 is on coil - and goes to the tachometer if installed
20 is live when key is on run or start
32 is live when cranking
57 goes to pin 20 on ECM and ground
324 goes to pin 36 on ECM
349 goes to pin 56 on the ECM
The three into the pickup, one probably got power through the module, if it follows as the newer engines, the other two will be crank and cam sensor outputs (difference is the pulse, one shutter is narrower then the rest).
Good luck with it!
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Thanks for the response. Can you think of any other reason it didn't start, or do you think I screwed up the wiring? As I said before, no problem starting before I made the switch unless the engine was hot. Otherwise it started right up. And then I had to splice the wires. Wish I had done that differently now.
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From: Grants Pass, OR
Thanks for the response. Can you think of any other reason it didn't start, or do you think I screwed up the wiring? As I said before, no problem starting before I made the switch unless the engine was hot. Otherwise it started right up. And then I had to splice the wires. Wish I had done that differently now.
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/943/50ignition.jpg
Did you get a new TFI or did you just relocate the old one?
Relocating the TFI won't fix a bad unit but may make a new one last longer.
The hall sensor and other electronic components inside the distributor can also fail and cause similar no start issues. Most people just replace the distributor as that is much much easier than trying to replace the individual parts ......... but can be done.
You can get the dist with or without the TFI.
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I think I've wired it correctly at this point. Still won't start. Could I have shorted the module by wiring it incorrectly?
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Is this a fuel injected 302? If so, you could pull the codes. If you get a serious code related to the ignition, then you can be sure there is still something wrong in that area. Here's a site that might help. Fuel Injection Technical Library
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Maybe I missed it, but... I see where you extended the harness that plugs into the end of the module, but nowhere have I seen how you connected the three spades on the module to the distributor.
I remote-mounted a TFI module once on a Ford Tempo and, yes, some of those wires are foil-wrapped to protect against interference.
Not sure what you did or how you did it nor from where you got your instructions, but I'd look around at some of the "remote mount tfi module" stuff that's out there, e.g.
Remote Mount TFI Ignition Module
McCully Racing Motors- We have exactly what your over-heated TFI Module Needs!
I remote-mounted a TFI module once on a Ford Tempo and, yes, some of those wires are foil-wrapped to protect against interference.
Not sure what you did or how you did it nor from where you got your instructions, but I'd look around at some of the "remote mount tfi module" stuff that's out there, e.g.
Remote Mount TFI Ignition Module
McCully Racing Motors- We have exactly what your over-heated TFI Module Needs!
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Thanks to all for the help. I'cve come across several electrical connections diagrams. One from a Chilton, one from a Squirt diagram of the wires and connectors, one from this forum that matches the Chilton, and another one from the web. All are different from one another except the Chilton and the one I got from 85lebaront2. That's the one I used and no dice.
Possibly I should convert to non-tfi system. Any ideas how to do that - step by step so I don't screw it up like I did this system?
Possibly I should convert to non-tfi system. Any ideas how to do that - step by step so I don't screw it up like I did this system?
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Exmore, VA
First, the only Ford non-TFI systems with computer control were the EEC-III that used a special Duraspark module. If it were me, I would go get a 1990 or newer distributor that was designed for a remote mount module. I would see if you can get the mating plugs off the module and distributor. Once you have those, I can give you a wiring diagram to hook it up correctly. For your system, you need the gray Motorcraft module, it is called a "push start" because it uses the starter cranking signal to "push" the dwell for a stronger spark.
The black module is called a CCD for computer controlled dwell, on these the EEC-IV or EEC-V box controls the dwell.
The black module is called a CCD for computer controlled dwell, on these the EEC-IV or EEC-V box controls the dwell.
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OK fellows! Here's what I can tell you.
I've hooked up the TFI connector as follows starting from the top of the connector down:
1. PIP
2. Spout
3. Start
4. Run
5. Coil
6. Ign Ground
That sequence is the one I found most consistently on the web. However, it does differ from the Haynes and Chilton manuals. Those have the PIP and Spout reversed and all else the same. Neither setup starts my vehicle. She cranks just fine.
It seems the coil is not providing spark. Either the #5 connection is not correct or my coil is shot. Could I have fried it by having the hookups incorrect?
In addition, I tried to use my voltage meter. I used it once to verify wires by connecting to the individual wires and the computer module. I got beeps when they were correct. On the last occasion I tried to do that and I got nothing, even with some of the ones I was able to get a tone on before. What happened?
Thanks for the replies in advance! Collectively I have confidence we'll narrow this down and provide the solution.
I've hooked up the TFI connector as follows starting from the top of the connector down:
1. PIP
2. Spout
3. Start
4. Run
5. Coil
6. Ign Ground
That sequence is the one I found most consistently on the web. However, it does differ from the Haynes and Chilton manuals. Those have the PIP and Spout reversed and all else the same. Neither setup starts my vehicle. She cranks just fine.
It seems the coil is not providing spark. Either the #5 connection is not correct or my coil is shot. Could I have fried it by having the hookups incorrect?
In addition, I tried to use my voltage meter. I used it once to verify wires by connecting to the individual wires and the computer module. I got beeps when they were correct. On the last occasion I tried to do that and I got nothing, even with some of the ones I was able to get a tone on before. What happened?
Thanks for the replies in advance! Collectively I have confidence we'll narrow this down and provide the solution.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
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From: Exmore, VA
Unfortunately, I have a couple of 1985/6 EFI 5.0 harnesses, but they are in Newport News and I ma 1 1/2 hours away in Exmore. I no longer have my 86 EVTM, I gave it to my son for his 86 so do not have a picture of the TFI connections for the distributor mounted module. I do have them for the remote module, but it won't help.
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I tried to mount it remotely but that didn't work for me either. Is there a different module to use when I mount it remotely?
Heck - right now I'm trying to just get the thing working again so I went back to mounting it on the distributor.
Heck - right now I'm trying to just get the thing working again so I went back to mounting it on the distributor.