M5OD TRANS COOLER?
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 150
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From: Charleston SC
M5OD TRANS COOLER?
Now before you start replying with, 'You have a manual you don't need a trans cooler', hear me out. My '95 F-150 just got delivered from 85 degree Hawaii, to 105 degree Texas. I drove it from Dallas to El Paso yesterday; and the floorboard on the transmission hump, the gear shifter, and the 4 wheel-drive shifter all got uncharacteristically hot. All the while, the engine temp barely touched the 'N' on normal.
When I pulled off I-20 for gas, I had no clutch. The pedal dropped to the floor with a thump with no engagement. At the gas station I checked the reservoir, which was clear and full, checked the pedal linkage, and checked for leaks, none. So now I am of the opinion of 'clutch fade' due to the heat. You older guys will know what I am talking about seeing as how clutch fluid and brake fluid are the same. Once I let everything cool down for 15-20 minutes the clutch was back.
So now I've decided to fab a trans cooler. Anyone know of a pump that can handle high temps and long durations of operation?
When I pulled off I-20 for gas, I had no clutch. The pedal dropped to the floor with a thump with no engagement. At the gas station I checked the reservoir, which was clear and full, checked the pedal linkage, and checked for leaks, none. So now I am of the opinion of 'clutch fade' due to the heat. You older guys will know what I am talking about seeing as how clutch fluid and brake fluid are the same. Once I let everything cool down for 15-20 minutes the clutch was back.
So now I've decided to fab a trans cooler. Anyone know of a pump that can handle high temps and long durations of operation?
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,176
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From: Western Central NV
I drive mine in 105-115 degree heat all the time without any issues. Oh the floor boards get hot, crap everything gets hot as hell. But no clutch fade or brake fade. These new fluids are made for extremes.
The thought that comes to my mind is not a pump, but to remember the transmission & (transfer case on 4x4s), have internal pumps to keep everything lubed. So hooking up an outside pump might force fluid through or into the internal pump & cause big issues. Most of the failures of both the trans & T/C is due to internal oil pump failure.
Add a little Z-Max for auto trans or add a few ounces of Lucas A/T transmission additive. I did that on mine.
As for clutch issues being this truck has been in the water (Hawaii 100% HUMIDITY) maybe changing all fluids would be a good start. How much water is in all your fluids? Remember brake fluid attracts moisture. Think simple.
Craig
The thought that comes to my mind is not a pump, but to remember the transmission & (transfer case on 4x4s), have internal pumps to keep everything lubed. So hooking up an outside pump might force fluid through or into the internal pump & cause big issues. Most of the failures of both the trans & T/C is due to internal oil pump failure.
Add a little Z-Max for auto trans or add a few ounces of Lucas A/T transmission additive. I did that on mine.
As for clutch issues being this truck has been in the water (Hawaii 100% HUMIDITY) maybe changing all fluids would be a good start. How much water is in all your fluids? Remember brake fluid attracts moisture. Think simple.
Craig
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: 7th realm of hell, Va.
If you are set on running a cooler on your manual trans here is a pump from summit racing designed just for that.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-40-524
You would still need to run tubing and power and an Aux cooler then figure out how much fluid to add, you would also want to add an additional reservoir.
matt
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-40-524
You would still need to run tubing and power and an Aux cooler then figure out how much fluid to add, you would also want to add an additional reservoir.
matt
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,176
Likes: 4
From: Western Central NV
If you are set on running a cooler on your manual trans here is a pump from summit racing designed just for that.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-40-524
You would still need to run tubing and power and an Aux cooler then figure out how much fluid to add, you would also want to add an additional reservoir.
matt
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-40-524
You would still need to run tubing and power and an Aux cooler then figure out how much fluid to add, you would also want to add an additional reservoir.
matt
Those pumps are for rear ends for track racing.
What you guys are talking about is the same as adding an external oil pump to your engine. HUH????
Craig
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: 7th realm of hell, Va.
You could plumb the suction and return to the fill and drain plug holes in the trans to pull the oil out run it through the cooler and reservoir/accumulator and return the cooled oil back to the sump.
I am sure if you did deeper on some of the racing parts sites, SummitRacing, Jegs and others you could find a belt driven pump to run off you serpentine belt
Those are probably about your only two options
Matt
I am sure if you did deeper on some of the racing parts sites, SummitRacing, Jegs and others you could find a belt driven pump to run off you serpentine belt
Those are probably about your only two options
Matt
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Charleston SC
Thanks!
Thanks for the replies, changing all the fluids is already on my to do list. If that doesn't help for the long drives, will look into summit and jegs. Craig if you are still watching this thread thanks for the advice on the additives, will try that when I change the fluids this week.
Senior User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 326
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From: Carthage, MO
This is probably the best (only?) way to do it without tearing the transmission apart and REALLY fabbing something. However, in my opinion the chances of a hose clamp coming loose and draining all your fluid onto the interstate are too great to offset any cooling advantage it wasn't designed to need in the first place.
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Charleston SC
This is probably the best (only?) way to do it without tearing the transmission apart and REALLY fabbing something. However, in my opinion the chances of a hose clamp coming loose and draining all your fluid onto the interstate are too great to offset any cooling advantage it wasn't designed to need in the first place.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Rhode Island
What do you mean no clutch? As in you had no pedal and could not disengage it, or it wouldn't move?
Ford wouldn't have released these trucks if they stopped working in a Texas summer. You have a problem, and a cooler is just masking a failing part.
Ford wouldn't have released these trucks if they stopped working in a Texas summer. You have a problem, and a cooler is just masking a failing part.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2008
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I've had that clutch pedal drop to the floor happen with three or four different trucks with hydraulic clutches. Really makes you want an old mechanical linage clutch, doesn't it?
I never had to do anything to make the clutch start working again; one memorable occasion was in my 91 Ranger on the Wyoming Nebraska line and I wanted to downshift from 5th to 4th and no clutch. By the time I got to Cheyenne, it had started working again, and I had no more problems until I sold the truck.
No suggestions on a circulating pump, but I would ensure both the transmission and transfer case were full of fluid.
Robert
I never had to do anything to make the clutch start working again; one memorable occasion was in my 91 Ranger on the Wyoming Nebraska line and I wanted to downshift from 5th to 4th and no clutch. By the time I got to Cheyenne, it had started working again, and I had no more problems until I sold the truck.
No suggestions on a circulating pump, but I would ensure both the transmission and transfer case were full of fluid.
Robert
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,176
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From: Western Central NV
All you guys with this external oil pump thoughts, please explain how you will make this work without damaging the internal oil pumps. You can't pump a 60 PSI pump against a lesser PSI pump without damage. It would be no different than adding another oil pump to your engine. If you want to run two pumps together then they need to be the same PSI & volume. On the BW 1356 pump failure doesn't need any help. Their known to come loose from the mounts etc. You guys need to research these transmissions & T/C on there operation.
Craig
Craig
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Joined: Jun 2012
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From: 7th realm of hell, Va.
It would not effect the installed pump if you put it in as a completely independent system. If you pull the hot fluid to through the drain plug hole, run it through the cooler and the then return it through the fill, you would just need to add sufficient fluid to fill the cooler pump and lines so you do not run the installed trans pump low. You would not be using the installed pump to pump fluid to the cooler, nor would you be using the aux cooling pump to pump fluid to the gears in the transmission.
Matt
Matt
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,557
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From: Concord, NC
This generation of manual transmission does not have an internal oil pump. As far as I know, only the newer 6-speed ZF manual transmissions have a fluid pump, and that's only to circulate the fluid through an external cooler. I don't know about the transfer case, but I've never seen any external lines or coolers on them from the factory so adding some lines would be independent of an internal pump and fluid circulation system.
I tend to agree with this statement:
I tend to agree with this statement:
Originally Posted by Lead Head
You have a problem, and a cooler is just masking a failing part.
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2013
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If your really worried just add a heat sink or a fan, there are other ways of cooling things down than a fluid cooler, I have never looked under a truck with an m5od so I don't know if it has a trans pan, but if it does add a bigger one
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 559
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From: South Carolina
If the clutch slave cylinder hasn't been replaced in the last 75-80k miles, this might be your one and only warning before it fails. I don't believe the fluid in the manual transmission is stressed enough to need extra cooling, but the higher ambient heat in Texas could certainly affect a seal. The only times I've ever had the clutch pedal go to the floor, part of the hydraulic system was about to go.