TC lock up question.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,546
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From: Wellington, Co
TC lock up question.
Curious about the operation of the torque converter. Running in 60t tune, notice the tc will sometimes lock in second gear, or will stay locked when I downshift to second. Of course lower speeds, around 40-45, and towing. The lock on acc will happen about 1/2-3/4 throttle.
I can't compare with the old tranny, as I didn't have the led set up, and was always a little confused on the shifting, was it a gear change or tc lock.
Thanks.
I can't compare with the old tranny, as I didn't have the led set up, and was always a little confused on the shifting, was it a gear change or tc lock.
Thanks.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,546
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From: Wellington, Co
Thanks Mark. Do you forsee any issues with this?
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From: Savannah
Trans Voltage
Mark lord of the 4100R... I have a Diablo preditor has scanner and have battled the revers drift for 2 years now, I have tried everything BTS pump and Valve body , new solenoid pack , pulled the valve body a few times has great pressure . The thing i want to ask is i have monitored the pressure controle voltage. With stock tune in it the voltage will be around 8 volts and does not drift most of the time with a tune in it its around 9 volts and it drifts almost every time and especially when the temp gets up .. My deal is why does temp matter if you have pressure . also why does the voltage show so low should that be 12 volts or 9 volts . I am almost ready to try a PCM.. we have been in the trans 2 times . Another thing does clearence in the revers pack matter . In my book is says it dont matter as long as they have the same number , I have always used the .010 for each clutch for a rule of thumb..I wonderd if the extra movment of the piston could cause a leak....sorry for the ramble
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,705
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From: SE Florida
I know some things about the 4R100. Never heard of a 4100R. 
I've seen a fix that only involves the valve body. I do not know the details of what was done, only that it got the reverse engagement down to one second.
I've never looked at solenoid voltage. That doesn't mean anything to me.
How do you know you have pressure? What was the pressure when you measured it? Seals leak more when the trans is warmer. Both the seals are softer when warm and the fluid is thinner. That is a perfect environment for leakage.
If you'll send me half of what I PCM would cost you I will do exactly as much good as a new PCM. You'll save half the cost and I'll do absolutely nothing. That will be what a new PCM will do for you, but you save half the cost.
I think your book is wrong. Clearance is critical to clutch apply time.
The thing i want to ask is i have monitored the pressure controle voltage. With stock tune in it the voltage will be around 8 volts and does not drift most of the time with a tune in it its around 9 volts and it drifts almost every time and especially when the temp gets up .. My deal is why does temp matter if you have pressure .
How do you know you have pressure? What was the pressure when you measured it? Seals leak more when the trans is warmer. Both the seals are softer when warm and the fluid is thinner. That is a perfect environment for leakage.
we have been in the trans 2 times . Another thing does clearence in the revers pack matter . In my book is says it dont matter as long as they have the same number , I have always used the .010 for each clutch for a rule of thumb..I wonderd if the extra movment of the piston could cause a leak....sorry for the ramble
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Savannah
I checked the pressure with a gauge connected to pressure port. I made it with a hydralic hose and 300 psi gauge. I dont have them here i have them in the shop but all was on the upper end .. If you have to make a list of where leaks are most common to least . Can you throw a few at me we are looking at pulling it again....... I was thinking that the piston moving more than it should could cause it to leake .. The book is a ATSG .. I put a HD 3 disk convertor but it did it with a stock .. Also did a BTS valve body and a BTS pump... Any thoughts on probable leaks .. I am going back in next week . You have helped so many thank you for helping us dumb folks ..... Thank you
Phil
Phil
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From: Damon (South East Texas)
I checked the pressure with a gauge connected to pressure port. I made it with a hydralic hose and 300 psi gauge. I dont have them here i have them in the shop but all was on the upper end .. If you have to make a list of where leaks are most common to least . Can you throw a few at me we are looking at pulling it again....... I was thinking that the piston moving more than it should could cause it to leake .. The book is a ATSG .. I put a HD 3 disk convertor but it did it with a stock .. Also did a BTS valve body and a BTS pump... Any thoughts on probable leaks .. I am going back in next week . You have helped so many thank you for helping us dumb folks ..... Thank you
Phil
Phil
Did you replace any bushings, thrust washers, or Torrington bearings?These following are clearance specs of my current rebuild.
Rev .030-.032
FWD .035-.037
Dir .038-.040
Int .026
OD .028-.030
Coast .040
Output Shaft End Play .015
Lower Drivetrain End Play .032-.033
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From: Savannah
Yes i replaced all bushings and bearings . I air checked eveything that was in the book .... Thanks for the reply, Every gear is perfect the lock up is a little harsh it will cause the turbo to compressor surge , and everything is as good as i could want but i cant figure the reverse drift . I have had it happen in first a few times . that has happen sense it has warmmed up... The trans temp has never seen 180 or above .... Thanks any other stuff on the book being wrong ,,,, Phil
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From: Savannah
another thing i left out was this is a PTO unit ..... And we put the the BTS valve wich in the most part is a Tugger kit but i bought the BTS pump so the boost valve and all was already installed ..... I wish i could buy a complete trans and start over ..... Also somthing strange i found when we went back together the seal kit had the small rear bushing and small yoke seal the bushing had a little wear and the yoke had some wear . a year later the rear seal gets the one drop in the driveway ... pull the shafft pull tail house and bushing wore almost thru to the housing got the corect seal and bushing . for the yoke i put it in a lath turnrd it down .030 and bored a sleave put it over then turnned it down to match the bushing....I wonder what caused that , if the output shaft has alot of runout or just bent. could this cause some seal to leak....I have looked at buying a BTS trans but they are very salty when i build all my race car transmissions and 4l60s and 350s, but this thing i guess is a little out of my reach .... Thanks Guys help if you would also nee a big yoke if anyone has a good one .....
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From: Damon (South East Texas)
Yes i replaced all bushings and bearings . I air checked eveything that was in the book .... Thanks for the reply, Every gear is perfect the lock up is a little harsh it will cause the turbo to compressor surge , and everything is as good as i could want but i cant figure the reverse drift . I have had it happen in first a few times . that has happen sense it has warmmed up... The trans temp has never seen 180 or above .... Thanks any other stuff on the book being wrong ,,,, Phil
Do you have the torque converter "on-off" lock up valve conversion, or the PW modulated valve?
I do not have the PTO version, but I do have a modded Coast Clutch drum with 4 frictions. I also have 4x4, so I haven't had any output bushing issues due to the added support of the transfer case bearings.
I use a combination of TransGo, Sonnax, and a few other ones that you can't buy in a kit. Experience is your best teacher.
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From: Savannah
I have the on off conversion the converter locks up so hard under part throttle it is at the point of compressor surge . it locks up good all gears are good. The low / R clearence is a big thing that may have me . I am going to try to pull it in the next few week s. thanks for the advice . any other things you can think of fire them at me .....
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,096
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From: Mesa AZ
Yes i replaced all bushings and bearings . I air checked eveything that was in the book .... Thanks for the reply, Every gear is perfect the lock up is a little harsh it will cause the turbo to compressor surge , and everything is as good as i could want but i cant figure the reverse drift . I have had it happen in first a few times . that has happen sense it has warmmed up... The trans temp has never seen 180 or above .... Thanks any other stuff on the book being wrong ,,,, Phil
Lead Driver
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From: Damon (South East Texas)
I think he's referring to TC stall when in Reverse. It can be caused my low pressure/internal leaks. I just read a thread about it on PSN. Feels like TC Locking in Reverse...4R100 - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum2. It is very posssible with an aftermarket trans. The "on-off" and PW Modulated were both offered in the early '99 model. All 4R100's after that came stock with the PW version.
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From: Savannah
Yes drift in the apply of the convertor in reverse that is what ford called it in there write ups . I have had it sense I broke some hard parts and replaced and rebuilt . I have a leake inside but cant find it or have somthing other than low pressure ... When you tear it down nothing is there stesring you in the face...... ARRRRRR these trans are so lite it makes me want to pull it .....Thanks for any input