Any word on the 2014 Expedition?
#17
07-09-2013, 02:07 PM
#18
07-09-2013, 03:57 PM
High-quality interiors with meticulous fit-and-finish are coming, along with new powertrain options (engine and transmissions). The next Expedition’s towing capacity will close the gap between the discontinued Excursion. So there will be no need for a three quarter-ton version.
Jackie DiMarco is at the helm of the next Expedition’s design and engineering – so expect great things from the all-new 2015 Expedition. DiMarco is also the lead chief engineer for the all-new 2015 F-150 pickup (which is no coincidence).
It takes time to design an all-new vehicle as complex as the Expedition, the engineers want to get it right – the first time.
Jackie DiMarco is at the helm of the next Expedition’s design and engineering – so expect great things from the all-new 2015 Expedition. DiMarco is also the lead chief engineer for the all-new 2015 F-150 pickup (which is no coincidence).
It takes time to design an all-new vehicle as complex as the Expedition, the engineers want to get it right – the first time.
#19
07-10-2013, 06:47 AM
High-quality interiors with meticulous fit-and-finish are coming, along with new powertrain options (engine and transmissions). The next Expedition’s towing capacity will close the gap between the discontinued Excursion. So there will be no need for a three quarter-ton version.
Jackie DiMarco is at the helm of the next Expedition’s design and engineering – so expect great things from the all-new 2015 Expedition. DiMarco is also the lead chief engineer for the all-new 2015 F-150 pickup (which is no coincidence).
It takes time to design an all-new vehicle as complex as the Expedition, the engineers want to get it right – the first time.
Jackie DiMarco is at the helm of the next Expedition’s design and engineering – so expect great things from the all-new 2015 Expedition. DiMarco is also the lead chief engineer for the all-new 2015 F-150 pickup (which is no coincidence).
It takes time to design an all-new vehicle as complex as the Expedition, the engineers want to get it right – the first time.
So I disagree.
#20
07-10-2013, 12:46 PM
The 3/4 ton Suburban has the 6.0L, not the 6.2L. The current 6.0L makes 360hp/380ft-lbs tq, which is exactly the same as what Ford's 5.0L is putting out. The Ecoboost and Ford's 6.2L both blow that engine away.
As far as the 8.1L returning, where did you hear that? I really doubt it. Most are saying GM's next gen HD trucks will get a version of GM's new 6.2L Ecotec3, which makes 420hp/450ft-lbs tq in half ton trim (more HP and TQ than the old 8.1L)
As far as going from 9,000 to 12,000lbs towing rating, you can pretty much count on it. GM's half tons went from 10,500lbs towing to 12,000lbs towing with the new models and I'm positive Ford will follow.
The 3/4 ton suburban was actually dropped from GM's 2014 lineup and there is a good chance it won't return once they change over to the new platforms. GM's new half-ton platform is capable of towing more than what the old 3/4 ton Suburban could.
As far as the 8.1L returning, where did you hear that? I really doubt it. Most are saying GM's next gen HD trucks will get a version of GM's new 6.2L Ecotec3, which makes 420hp/450ft-lbs tq in half ton trim (more HP and TQ than the old 8.1L)
As far as going from 9,000 to 12,000lbs towing rating, you can pretty much count on it. GM's half tons went from 10,500lbs towing to 12,000lbs towing with the new models and I'm positive Ford will follow.
The 3/4 ton suburban was actually dropped from GM's 2014 lineup and there is a good chance it won't return once they change over to the new platforms. GM's new half-ton platform is capable of towing more than what the old 3/4 ton Suburban could.
#21
07-10-2013, 02:08 PM
The 3/4 ton Suburban has the 6.0L, not the 6.2L. The current 6.0L makes 360hp/380ft-lbs tq, which is exactly the same as what Ford's 5.0L is putting out. The Ecoboost and Ford's 6.2L both blow that engine away.
As far as the 8.1L returning, where did you hear that? I really doubt it. Most are saying GM's next gen HD trucks will get a version of GM's new 6.2L Ecotec3, which makes 420hp/450ft-lbs tq in half ton trim (more HP and TQ than the old 8.1L)
As far as going from 9,000 to 12,000lbs towing rating, you can pretty much count on it. GM's half tons went from 10,500lbs towing to 12,000lbs towing with the new models and I'm positive Ford will follow.
The 3/4 ton suburban was actually dropped from GM's 2014 lineup and there is a good chance it won't return once they change over to the new platforms. GM's new half-ton platform is capable of towing more than what the old 3/4 ton Suburban could.
As far as the 8.1L returning, where did you hear that? I really doubt it. Most are saying GM's next gen HD trucks will get a version of GM's new 6.2L Ecotec3, which makes 420hp/450ft-lbs tq in half ton trim (more HP and TQ than the old 8.1L)
As far as going from 9,000 to 12,000lbs towing rating, you can pretty much count on it. GM's half tons went from 10,500lbs towing to 12,000lbs towing with the new models and I'm positive Ford will follow.
The 3/4 ton suburban was actually dropped from GM's 2014 lineup and there is a good chance it won't return once they change over to the new platforms. GM's new half-ton platform is capable of towing more than what the old 3/4 ton Suburban could.
Tow Ratings are one thing, actually towing is vastly different. My good ole Excursion 7.3 PSD is an example of a large family vehicle able to tow up hills and mountains with relative ease especially comparing to the Burb/Yukon or the even more so with the under-powered Expedition. The Ex needs the 6.2 engine... possibly in variants such as turbo or SC for torque, or just put a Diesel in it,and be done.
Proof is in the pudding... so we'll see. I don't think Ford had the engineering wisdom to go back to a diesel or the willingness to provide enough power to make the new expedition perform with 12K hanging off the back.
I'm gonna be from Missouri on this one. just sayin'
#22
07-10-2013, 02:15 PM
Your right... it wasn't a Burb it was a Yukon... I think an 09. IMO... much, much better than the Expedition. However the Burb will no longer come in a 3/4 ton model for 14 just the Yukon, as you've stated.
Tow Ratings are one thing, actually towing is vastly different. My good ole Excursion 7.3 PSD is an example of a large family vehicle able to tow up hills and mountains with relative ease especially comparing to the Burb/Yukon or the even more so with the under-powered Expedition. The Ex needs the 6.2 engine... possibly in variants such as turbo or SC for torque, or just put a Diesel in it,and be done.
Proof is in the pudding... so we'll see. I don't think Ford had the engineering wisdom to go back to a diesel or the willingness to provide enough power to make the new expedition perform with 12K hanging off the back.
I'm gonna be from Missouri on this one. just sayin'
Tow Ratings are one thing, actually towing is vastly different. My good ole Excursion 7.3 PSD is an example of a large family vehicle able to tow up hills and mountains with relative ease especially comparing to the Burb/Yukon or the even more so with the under-powered Expedition. The Ex needs the 6.2 engine... possibly in variants such as turbo or SC for torque, or just put a Diesel in it,and be done.
Proof is in the pudding... so we'll see. I don't think Ford had the engineering wisdom to go back to a diesel or the willingness to provide enough power to make the new expedition perform with 12K hanging off the back.
I'm gonna be from Missouri on this one. just sayin'
#23
07-10-2013, 02:47 PM
The "gap" you mention 9K as opposed to 12K.... which can not be closed without significant frame stiffening and suspension mods. See SD models as an example. However the example of what is out there now, is a 3/4 ton Burb with the 6.2, and it performs just OK towing near it's limit, but is vastly superior to the Expedition at this time. Neither vehicle is suited for 10k+ towing regularly, or stopping even at it's tow rating ,IMO. The gap is power and stability, and power comes from torque and stability comes from suspension. I also hear ...The ole 8.1 is coming back for government motors, and that will close the gap, but the mileage is gonna be poor, but it will pull down a house.
So I disagree.
So I disagree.
From 2000-2001, UW137 was rated with a maximum tow rating of 10,000 lbs (4,535 kg or 5 tons).
The current Expedition (U324) is rated for 9,200 lbs (4,173 kg or 4.6 tons). Almost what the 2000 and 2001 model year Excursions could handle.
The current U324 and U354 (long wheelbase) on dealer lots, already have larger disc brakes than the UW137 had. The Expedition also has four-wheel, four-senor, four-channel ABS with electronic brake force distribution (EBFD) and emergency brake assist (EBA) as well as trailer sway control (TSC); all of which the Excursion didn’t get, due to its short life cycle.
Adding to that, the Expedition (since 2013) now has TowCommand, with support for braked trailers with up to four axles.
The next-generation 2015 Expedition will barrow as much as it can from the next-generation 2015 Ford F-150 (P552) getting a new heavy-duty hydroformed fully boxed frame, even bigger brakes, new engines (one of which will be the 5.0 liter 32-valve DOHC Ti-VCT Coyote V-8), plus a 10-speed automatic transmission with ultra-low launch gearing for towing and pulling.
As a result, the next Expedition could very well be rated to tow close to 10,000 - 10,500 lbs (4,762 kg or 5.25 tons), which would be knocking on the Excursion’s door. Thus, closing the gap.
Ratings that close make a three quarter-ton SUV redundant.
#25
07-10-2013, 07:32 PM
The 10-speed automatic transmission will be central to the next Expeditions performance, both in towing and allowing for better fuel efficiency.
1st gear - ultra low launch ratio
2nd gear - ultra low ratio
3rd gear - ultra low ratio
4th gear - low ratio
5th gear - medium ratio
6th gear - direct ratio
7th gear - high ratio
8th gear – high ratio
9th gear – ultra high ratio (overdrive)
10th gear – ultra high ratio (overdrive)
Reverse - standard ratio
Those are rough representations of gearing assignment, exact gearing ratios will be released when the gearbox’s development is complete. Cogs 8 and 7 may be considered overdrive as the gear ratios are fine-tuned during development. Cogs 1, 2, 3, and possibly 4, will be your power gears. Either way, the 10-speed gearbox will endow the next gen Expedition with unparalleled torque acceleration.
SelectShift manumatic range selection is guaranteed, along with other goodies like tow/haul mode. Paddle shifters mounted behind the steering-wheel are more of a toss-up. Maybe, maybe not. We shall see.
I’m certain the new Expedition will be released with the 6-speed 6R80 automatic transmission, with the 10-speed (I "suspect" it will bow as the 10R80 or 10R85) automatic transmission following soon thereafter if its not ready by launch date.
1st gear - ultra low launch ratio
2nd gear - ultra low ratio
3rd gear - ultra low ratio
4th gear - low ratio
5th gear - medium ratio
6th gear - direct ratio
7th gear - high ratio
8th gear – high ratio
9th gear – ultra high ratio (overdrive)
10th gear – ultra high ratio (overdrive)
Reverse - standard ratio
Those are rough representations of gearing assignment, exact gearing ratios will be released when the gearbox’s development is complete. Cogs 8 and 7 may be considered overdrive as the gear ratios are fine-tuned during development. Cogs 1, 2, 3, and possibly 4, will be your power gears. Either way, the 10-speed gearbox will endow the next gen Expedition with unparalleled torque acceleration.
SelectShift manumatic range selection is guaranteed, along with other goodies like tow/haul mode. Paddle shifters mounted behind the steering-wheel are more of a toss-up. Maybe, maybe not. We shall see.
I’m certain the new Expedition will be released with the 6-speed 6R80 automatic transmission, with the 10-speed (I "suspect" it will bow as the 10R80 or 10R85) automatic transmission following soon thereafter if its not ready by launch date.
#26
07-12-2013, 06:00 AM
In its final year, the Excursion (UW137) was officially rated to tow up to 11,000 lbs (4,989 kg or 5.5 tons). Not 12,000 lbs.
From 2000-2001, UW137 was rated with a maximum tow rating of 10,000 lbs (4,535 kg or 5 tons).
The current Expedition (U324) is rated for 9,200 lbs (4,173 kg or 4.6 tons). Almost what the 2000 and 2001 model year Excursions could handle.
The current U324 and U354 (long wheelbase) on dealer lots, already have larger disc brakes than the UW137 had. The Expedition also has four-wheel, four-senor, four-channel ABS with electronic brake force distribution (EBFD) and emergency brake assist (EBA) as well as trailer sway control (TSC); all of which the Excursion didn’t get, due to its short life cycle.
Adding to that, the Expedition (since 2013) now has TowCommand, with support for braked trailers with up to four axles.
The next-generation 2015 Expedition will barrow as much as it can from the next-generation 2015 Ford F-150 (P552) getting a new heavy-duty hydroformed fully boxed frame, even bigger brakes, new engines (one of which will be the 5.0 liter 32-valve DOHC Ti-VCT Coyote V-8), plus a 10-speed automatic transmission with ultra-low launch gearing for towing and pulling.
As a result, the next Expedition could very well be rated to tow close to 10,000 - 10,500 lbs (4,762 kg or 5.25 tons), which would be knocking on the Excursion’s door. Thus, closing the gap.
Ratings that close make a three quarter-ton SUV redundant.
From 2000-2001, UW137 was rated with a maximum tow rating of 10,000 lbs (4,535 kg or 5 tons).
The current Expedition (U324) is rated for 9,200 lbs (4,173 kg or 4.6 tons). Almost what the 2000 and 2001 model year Excursions could handle.
The current U324 and U354 (long wheelbase) on dealer lots, already have larger disc brakes than the UW137 had. The Expedition also has four-wheel, four-senor, four-channel ABS with electronic brake force distribution (EBFD) and emergency brake assist (EBA) as well as trailer sway control (TSC); all of which the Excursion didn’t get, due to its short life cycle.
Adding to that, the Expedition (since 2013) now has TowCommand, with support for braked trailers with up to four axles.
The next-generation 2015 Expedition will barrow as much as it can from the next-generation 2015 Ford F-150 (P552) getting a new heavy-duty hydroformed fully boxed frame, even bigger brakes, new engines (one of which will be the 5.0 liter 32-valve DOHC Ti-VCT Coyote V-8), plus a 10-speed automatic transmission with ultra-low launch gearing for towing and pulling.
As a result, the next Expedition could very well be rated to tow close to 10,000 - 10,500 lbs (4,762 kg or 5.25 tons), which would be knocking on the Excursion’s door. Thus, closing the gap.
Ratings that close make a three quarter-ton SUV redundant.
. Real world towing requires more than what the door sticker says. Hang 10K on the back and go up a mountain.... then back down. I can not believe nor will I believe a 5.0 gasser in a 6500lb truck pulling 10K is gonna be anything but a dog. Sorry... I just don't see it. Why not put the 5.0 in the SD then? Seems like it would work on paper... or better yet discontinue the SD line and just use the new Expedition chasis instead.
When anyone tries to make something do everything... then the something does nothing well for everyone.
But... and this is a biggie... if it becomes the miracle as proposed then I'll have one towing my stuff.... but again... I'm gonna be from Missouri on this one.
:Sometimes experience trumps theory.
#27
07-12-2013, 01:42 PM
Keep in mind that, for 2015, Ford will start following the universal J2807 towing standard. Part of that standard says, at max GCWR, the truck needs to be able to climb a constant 5% grade over 11.17 miles (a 3000 ft climb) without dropping below 40mph. Also known as the Davis dam test.
So, whatever towing number the new vehicles are given you can bet the truck can handle it when properly equipped, unlike the arbitrary standard they've used in the past.
Also remember, the F150 and Expedition are both getting a complete redesign. Stronger frame, stronger axles, lighter body, bigger brakes, direct injected 5.0L, next gen Ecoboost, 9 or 10 speed transmission, etc.
You're talking about a totally different vehicle from the current Expedition and it's ancient 5.4L.
So, whatever towing number the new vehicles are given you can bet the truck can handle it when properly equipped, unlike the arbitrary standard they've used in the past.
Also remember, the F150 and Expedition are both getting a complete redesign. Stronger frame, stronger axles, lighter body, bigger brakes, direct injected 5.0L, next gen Ecoboost, 9 or 10 speed transmission, etc.
You're talking about a totally different vehicle from the current Expedition and it's ancient 5.4L.
#28
07-12-2013, 04:15 PM
Actually, I’m an engineer.
One should realize half-ton trucks of today outperform three quarter-ton trucks of just 15 years ago, and one-ton trucks of 20 years back. Its called progressive engineering, new advancements in technology and design, allowing less to do more.
For example, the old Excursion used weak standard steel in its construction, which is why so much of it is used – to give it strength – which in-turn makes it heavy. Even still, there are areas like the A, B, C, and D-pillars of the Excursion which are weak. The Excursion would be unable to pass today’s roof-strength crush test.
The next Expedition will use reinforced aluminium and boron steel - boron is an exotic ultra-high strength steel that is far superior to the metals used on the Excursion. That is just progressive engineering.
The Excursion would get these advancements too, if it were still in production, but its not. The next Super Duty will however get these advancements as its due around 2016 or so.
But I can tell you the age of the 3/4-ton SUV has come to an end; Ford has no plans on reviving such a vehicle. General Motors is in the process of winding down their 3/4-ton SUV production.
So if the all-new 2015 Expedition does not float your boat, a 2016 Super Duty should make a good replacement for your Excursion.
One should realize half-ton trucks of today outperform three quarter-ton trucks of just 15 years ago, and one-ton trucks of 20 years back. Its called progressive engineering, new advancements in technology and design, allowing less to do more.
For example, the old Excursion used weak standard steel in its construction, which is why so much of it is used – to give it strength – which in-turn makes it heavy. Even still, there are areas like the A, B, C, and D-pillars of the Excursion which are weak. The Excursion would be unable to pass today’s roof-strength crush test.
The next Expedition will use reinforced aluminium and boron steel - boron is an exotic ultra-high strength steel that is far superior to the metals used on the Excursion. That is just progressive engineering.
The Excursion would get these advancements too, if it were still in production, but its not. The next Super Duty will however get these advancements as its due around 2016 or so.
But I can tell you the age of the 3/4-ton SUV has come to an end; Ford has no plans on reviving such a vehicle. General Motors is in the process of winding down their 3/4-ton SUV production.
So if the all-new 2015 Expedition does not float your boat, a 2016 Super Duty should make a good replacement for your Excursion.
#29
07-12-2013, 05:15 PM
Keep in mind that, for 2015, Ford will start following the universal J2807 towing standard. Part of that standard says, at max GCWR, the truck needs to be able to climb a constant 5% grade over 11.17 miles (a 3000 ft climb) without dropping below 40mph. Also known as the Davis dam test.
So, whatever towing number the new vehicles are given you can bet the truck can handle it when properly equipped, unlike the arbitrary standard they've used in the past.
So, whatever towing number the new vehicles are given you can bet the truck can handle it when properly equipped, unlike the arbitrary standard they've used in the past.
Toyota’s pickups and SUV’s have already undergone the standardized towing assessment.
The half-ton Toyota Tundra pickup is SAE J2807 certified to tow 10,500 lbs of braked trailer.
#30
07-14-2013, 01:03 PM
Actually, I’m an engineer.
One should realize half-ton trucks of today outperform three quarter-ton trucks of just 15 years ago, and one-ton trucks of 20 years back. Its called progressive engineering, new advancements in technology and design, allowing less to do more.
For example, the old Excursion used weak standard steel in its construction, which is why so much of it is used – to give it strength – which in-turn makes it heavy. Even still, there are areas like the A, B, C, and D-pillars of the Excursion which are weak. The Excursion would be unable to pass today’s roof-strength crush test.
The next Expedition will use reinforced aluminium and boron steel - boron is an exotic ultra-high strength steel that is far superior to the metals used on the Excursion. That is just progressive engineering.
The Excursion would get these advancements too, if it were still in production, but its not. The next Super Duty will however get these advancements as its due around 2016 or so.
But I can tell you the age of the 3/4-ton SUV has come to an end; Ford has no plans on reviving such a vehicle. General Motors is in the process of winding down their 3/4-ton SUV production.
So if the all-new 2015 Expedition does not float your boat, a 2016 Super Duty should make a good replacement for your Excursion.
One should realize half-ton trucks of today outperform three quarter-ton trucks of just 15 years ago, and one-ton trucks of 20 years back. Its called progressive engineering, new advancements in technology and design, allowing less to do more.
For example, the old Excursion used weak standard steel in its construction, which is why so much of it is used – to give it strength – which in-turn makes it heavy. Even still, there are areas like the A, B, C, and D-pillars of the Excursion which are weak. The Excursion would be unable to pass today’s roof-strength crush test.
The next Expedition will use reinforced aluminium and boron steel - boron is an exotic ultra-high strength steel that is far superior to the metals used on the Excursion. That is just progressive engineering.
The Excursion would get these advancements too, if it were still in production, but its not. The next Super Duty will however get these advancements as its due around 2016 or so.
But I can tell you the age of the 3/4-ton SUV has come to an end; Ford has no plans on reviving such a vehicle. General Motors is in the process of winding down their 3/4-ton SUV production.
So if the all-new 2015 Expedition does not float your boat, a 2016 Super Duty should make a good replacement for your Excursion.
My old and poorly engineered Excursion has lots of good years in it. It will remain in demand and performing admirably and...lookie, lookie the used vehicle price reflects that reality. The purpose it was designed for, couldn't be more real/relevant today as it was back when they were manufactured.
Your are correct to say automobile companies have given up on a 3/4 ton variant but Dodge (wisely) has moved into the Diesel SUV market along with Mercedes, Audi, Volkswagen, BMW ... not bad company to keep.
Gotta say you kinda sound more like a salesperson then an engineer but you are well informed like a brochure. I'm old and trying to think where I once heard "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is"
... now where did I hear that?... just sayin'