Contribution Balance question
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I'm hitting easy street
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From: Central Oregon
Contribution Balance question
Are there PIDs for these?
Meaning, Contribution Balance for injectors?
I would assume there must be, how else would a program find them?
Anyone have these? Or know where I could get them?
Thanks,
Sean
Meaning, Contribution Balance for injectors?
I would assume there must be, how else would a program find them?
Anyone have these? Or know where I could get them?
Thanks,
Sean
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From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
P0263 is Cyl#1 and they go up from there in groups of three with injector voltage high/low for each cyl. I'm not sure a contribution/balance code=injector issue, it may be the most common cause by far but I think I've read of folks getting one of these codes with valve or rocker problems also. Maybe it's a cam sensor/crank sensor/time/rpm issue that trips it.
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On some scanners you can watch PERDEL(percent deceleration) for each cylinder. This will show you contribution, or lack thereof.
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From: Stuttgart, Ar
By definition: The Parameter Identification (PID) mode allows access to powertrain control module (PCM) information. This
includes analog and digital signal inputs and outputs along with calculated values and system status.
I think I understand what you're looking for Sean, but i don't think an injector "qualifies" as a device that "looks for anything" like a sensor that provides data (temp, RPM, position). I have 2 or 3 PID lists, including the Ford specific list, and they don't list injectors in that way. Our injectors basically just have two magnets that move a spool valve, as you well know, but they don't have anything that would indicate position of that valve. I belive that the CMP/CKP sensors contribute to or "sense" the actual rotation speed (or lack thereof) of the crankshaft to report the contribution balance codes (simplisticly speaking).
includes analog and digital signal inputs and outputs along with calculated values and system status.
I think I understand what you're looking for Sean, but i don't think an injector "qualifies" as a device that "looks for anything" like a sensor that provides data (temp, RPM, position). I have 2 or 3 PID lists, including the Ford specific list, and they don't list injectors in that way. Our injectors basically just have two magnets that move a spool valve, as you well know, but they don't have anything that would indicate position of that valve. I belive that the CMP/CKP sensors contribute to or "sense" the actual rotation speed (or lack thereof) of the crankshaft to report the contribution balance codes (simplisticly speaking).
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Cylinder contribution is basically measuring the rotational accuracy of the crankshaft. The computer can tell if one cylinder isn't contributing to the crankshaft rotation, and can output that lack of contribution. I've seen it called "misfires" as well, but I think it is the same thing. Lack of contribution can be the base engine - no compression for what ever reason, including piston, valve, valvetrain, but is most often an injector issue on an otherwise health engine. The programming instructions are in the Scangauge II X-gauge list.
From what I have read, fuel pulse width is the time between the end of the injector open signal and the start of the injector close signal from the FICM. It's probably read from the ECM. Probably not the answer you were looking for, though.
Brian
From what I have read, fuel pulse width is the time between the end of the injector open signal and the start of the injector close signal from the FICM. It's probably read from the ECM. Probably not the answer you were looking for, though.
Brian
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I'm hitting easy street
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From: Central Oregon
Cylinder contribution is basically measuring the rotational accuracy of the crankshaft. The computer can tell if one cylinder isn't contributing to the crankshaft rotation, and can output that lack of contribution. I've seen it called "misfires" as well, but I think it is the same thing. Lack of contribution can be the base engine - no compression for what ever reason, including piston, valve, valvetrain, but is most often an injector issue on an otherwise health engine. The programming instructions are in the Scangauge II X-gauge list.
From what I have read, fuel pulse width is the time between the end of the injector open signal and the start of the injector close signal from the FICM. It's probably read from the ECM. Probably not the answer you were looking for, though.
Brian
From what I have read, fuel pulse width is the time between the end of the injector open signal and the start of the injector close signal from the FICM. It's probably read from the ECM. Probably not the answer you were looking for, though.
Brian
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From: Stuttgart, Ar
I think more acurately would be cylinder "power" which can be high or low. High indicating more fuel, low less OR low compression which would be low power. It comes out as a straight line graph on AE.
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AS I understand it, in a perfect scenario the crankshaft is turning with perfectly constant rotational speed. In our world, the crankshaft rotates in series of jumps as the cylinders fire and push on the crank journals. The crank sensor measures the rotational speed of the crankshaft and is able to detect if a cylinder is not pushing as hard as the other cylinders. If an injector has failed, that cylinder won't push at all, and the result is a misfire on that cylinder. That is basically how the literature describes the process. As you can see, it's an implied test of the injector performance but it's not actually measuring anything to do with the injector itself, it's measuring the expected response of a properly performing injector in a cylinder that is itself performing properly.
Brian
Brian
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I'm hitting easy street
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From: Central Oregon
AS I understand it, in a perfect scenario the crankshaft is turning with perfectly constant rotational speed. In our world, the crankshaft rotates in series of jumps as the cylinders fire and push on the crank journals. The crank sensor measures the rotational speed of the crankshaft and is able to detect if a cylinder is not pushing as hard as the other cylinders. If an injector has failed, that cylinder won't push at all, and the result is a misfire on that cylinder. That is basically how the literature describes the process. As you can see, it's an implied test of the injector performance but it's not actually measuring anything to do with the injector itself, it's measuring the expected response of a properly performing injector in a cylinder that is itself performing properly.
Brian
Brian
Not that I ever want to need it!!
Thank all of you for the input.
Sean
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Just to add, the FICM can make very slight adjustments to injector timing, and PW to balance/equalize the power output of the cylinders. When an individual cylinder can not be brought into balance with these adjustments, a contribution fault is generated for that particular injector. The PCM logic assumes the injector is the cause of the power imbalance, which is why these codes can also be generated by mechanical deficiencies which cause low compression/power in an individual cylinder.
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Next time anyone who's interested watches a contribution test performed with Ford IDS, ask the tech to turn smoothing off. The graph will then show the power output characteristics of the injectors without any adjustments made by the FICM. You want the flattest line possible under either condition.
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From: Stuttgart, Ar
I do not know accurately how pulse width is determined but it's a combination of programming between the FICM and PCM and I believe the FICM controls it but not totally sure. That's one of the things I've never gotten clearly established in my mind.