cam help please
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Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: S.C.
cam help please
I don't know anything about #s when it comes to cams; so I have a question for all of you engine Gurus. I have a Engine Works hyd came 280/.460 lift I've been told conflicting information on the numbers what do they mean. Will it work well for a stock 289? Any other information would be be appreciated also.
Thanks
Thanks
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 38
From: Valley Center, California
There are many good on-line articles that explain cam specs. There are a variety of geometrical attributes to consider if you want to really understand camshafts and how they affect the engine. The cam manufacturers all give descriptions about what type applications the cams are ground for i.e. Compression, RPM Range, Vehicle weight, Headers needed, Rear-End gears, Torque Converter stall etc.
In general, the 280 number refers to the "advertised duration". In recent years, they spec that figure out at ".050 lift" which for a 280 cam is about 230. Like I said, it easier to read up on it.
280 degrees of duration with stock 289 heads is at the limit. With a set of headers it should be OK but it may have a lopey idle. If you need low RPM torque, you'd be better off at 260-272. Another factor is a spec referred to as "lobe separation angle". If this is running say 112-114 degrees you're probably OK. If it's down around 108, you're going to have issues.
The lift of .460 is just fine.
Dawg-a-Roo
In general, the 280 number refers to the "advertised duration". In recent years, they spec that figure out at ".050 lift" which for a 280 cam is about 230. Like I said, it easier to read up on it.
280 degrees of duration with stock 289 heads is at the limit. With a set of headers it should be OK but it may have a lopey idle. If you need low RPM torque, you'd be better off at 260-272. Another factor is a spec referred to as "lobe separation angle". If this is running say 112-114 degrees you're probably OK. If it's down around 108, you're going to have issues.
The lift of .460 is just fine.
Dawg-a-Roo
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
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From: Iowa
The cam in question has long ramps. Its .050 duration is actually 218. The LSA is not listed. As eman states, that is an important detail. They list the powerband starting at 2000 so I suspect the lobe center angle is not wide like you need.
If you want a cam I know will work that is not expensive, Summit sells a Edelbrock Performer "knock off" that is cheap. Exact same lift ad duration as a Performer. I have ran them and they work real good in a heavier street vehicle with auto trans. Put some decent mufflers on it and it will still sound good if that is a factor.
If you want a cam I know will work that is not expensive, Summit sells a Edelbrock Performer "knock off" that is cheap. Exact same lift ad duration as a Performer. I have ran them and they work real good in a heavier street vehicle with auto trans. Put some decent mufflers on it and it will still sound good if that is a factor.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,511
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From: peyton, colorado
Fenders, I'm also running the ebrock performer knock off. I've seen some refer to it as an RV cam. Good power at lower rpm, which is really where we spend most of our time. Starts to flatten out at 4500-5000 rpm. It would be a good combo with stock heads on a small motor. Better combo for a cruiser than lumpy cam with big numbers.
Cams are like women. The wild ones are pretty exciting to be around at a party but living with them day to day can get frustrating. They need to go high rpm all the time and sometimes you just want to cruise. The mild ones don't attract as much attention but they're much easier to live with long term. Still alot of fun, though.
Cams are like women. The wild ones are pretty exciting to be around at a party but living with them day to day can get frustrating. They need to go high rpm all the time and sometimes you just want to cruise. The mild ones don't attract as much attention but they're much easier to live with long term. Still alot of fun, though.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 38
From: Valley Center, California
I confess in my old age that too much cam is just right since my projects are not daily drivers. I run a 2800 stall comverter with a 3:25 gear. I love the big lump going through a set of quiet mufflers. I can tune around the issues but it takes some work. For those who like the lump the "thumper" cams are designed to lope while maintaining good manners.
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From: S.C.
What do you think of this cam from summit
Manufacturer's Part Number: SUM-3600
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,200-4,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 214
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204 int./214 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 280
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 289
Advertised Duration: 280 int./289 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.449 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.473 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.449 int./0.473 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Manufacturer's Part Number: SUM-3600
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,200-4,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 214
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204 int./214 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 280
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 289
Advertised Duration: 280 int./289 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.449 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.473 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.449 int./0.473 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 38
From: Valley Center, California
I'd say that's a good selection.
I recommend headers (shorty or otherwise). Cast iron Small Block Ford exhaust manifolds are awful though the later 302 tube manifolds are pretty good for the street. I'd think it would be pretty good to about 5500 RPM also. Good lift for bottom end power. LSA of 112 degrees should be fine. You may even have a bit of lopey idle.
Dawg-A-Roo
I recommend headers (shorty or otherwise). Cast iron Small Block Ford exhaust manifolds are awful though the later 302 tube manifolds are pretty good for the street. I'd think it would be pretty good to about 5500 RPM also. Good lift for bottom end power. LSA of 112 degrees should be fine. You may even have a bit of lopey idle.
Dawg-A-Roo
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 1
From: peyton, colorado
That 204/214 cam is the same grind as the edelbrock performer. I'm running the same cam. Ebrock makes it and so does every other cam manufacturer. Mine is a no name with that grind. Works ok for a cruiser, but flattens out pretty quickly, less than 5000 rpm. 16" of vacuum.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
IMHO if I was swapping out a cam today I wouldn't even consider a flat tappet. With the EPA mandated oils a flat tappet isn't going to last long especially if you use heavy springs. It would be cheaper in the long run to put it a roller cam. In my experience, I have always called the cam manufacturer(s) directly, told them what mods the engine has: heads, pistons, intake, carb, what tranny and rear axle ratio, tire size, and how it will be driven and ask for their advice on the right cam to use rather than guessing, asking around, or buying out of a distributor's catalog just by the specs. i have always been much happier.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 792
Likes: 3
From: Sandy Run SC
IMHO if I was swapping out a cam today I wouldn't even consider a flat tappet. With the EPA mandated oils a flat tappet isn't going to last long especially if you use heavy springs. It would be cheaper in the long run to put it a roller cam. In my experience, I have always called the cam manufacturer(s) directly, told them what mods the engine has: heads, pistons, intake, carb, what tranny and rear axle ratio, tire size, and how it will be driven and ask for their advice on the right cam to use rather than guessing, asking around, or buying out of a distributor's catalog just by the specs. i have always been much happier.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
As a general rule that's great advice. I run custom roller cams in most of my performance rides. The cam Jaye is considering is mellow though. It's a knockoff of the Edelbrock Performer flat tappet cam that has been around for perhaps 20 years. I've been running it for 10 years without issue. It is very mild, cheap and works with pretty soft springs. A roller conversion in SB Ford is pretty expensive and probably not necessary for the mild ramp rate of the listed cam.
Don't let me speak for you though Jaye as I don't know your budget. Last time I looked the retro roller lifters were about $350, reduced base circle roller cam must be used as a standard SBF roller cam will not clear in a non roller block 289. Probably a at least $250 for the special cam. Choices are limited in small base circle unless you go custom cam.
Here is a fairly mild retro roller kit from COMP Cams. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k31-422-8
Don't let me speak for you though Jaye as I don't know your budget. Last time I looked the retro roller lifters were about $350, reduced base circle roller cam must be used as a standard SBF roller cam will not clear in a non roller block 289. Probably a at least $250 for the special cam. Choices are limited in small base circle unless you go custom cam.
Here is a fairly mild retro roller kit from COMP Cams. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k31-422-8
FTE fan
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,674
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From: paradise, northern calif.
Just another happy performer plus user. My 68 302 is basicly the same motor as your 289, I also used the performer intake, 600 carb, some stiffer springs, pushrods , tight tuck headers, and 2 1/2" pipes. My power is as stated B4 by others in the low rpm band, falling off around 4 to 45 hundred RPM wich is just what I like when driving.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Just another happy performer plus user. My 68 302 is basicly the same motor as your 289, I also used the performer intake, 600 carb, some stiffer springs, pushrods , tight tuck headers, and 2 1/2" pipes. My power is as stated B4 by others in the low rpm band, falling off around 4 to 45 hundred RPM wich is just what I like when driving.