Can a 352 be stroked to 427 ci and do they hold up i just saw one on ebay for 7 grand (I m not planing on buying it just curious)

 

those big cube small blocks have diminishing returns...

PERSONALLY, I wouldn't go bigger than a 4.00" stroke on a Windsor... if you go .060" over, I think that gives you a 414... AWESOME rod ratio due to the 2.10" chevy size rod journals (allowing a longer rod)

a 4.00" windsor with a chevy rod journal size is actually a better layout than the factory setup IMHO!

but when you start going w/ more stroke, you start running into diminishing returns... reliability/strength issues, etc. now, that's not to say that they won't work and make great power, but you can make AWESOME numbers with a 4.00" stroke...

if you want a 427, you might as well just step up to a big block.

for a truck application that isn't going to see more than ~5800rpm and isn't going to see a power adder, the 3.85" stroke is a nice budget deal... the rod ratio isn't stellar, but it's no worse than a 400 SBC. BUT, with a .030" over bore, it gives you 393 cubic inches and it uses factory Windsor rods and a 302 piston... a replacement 302 piston is cheaper than a replacement windsor piston... the TRW forged pistons are about $150 cheaper if I recall correctly... put that $150 towards a ~$400 crank, and you're WAY ahead of the game!!! the stock Windsor rods will be fine w/ some ARP rod bolts if you keep the revs down.

I normall recomend a 4.00" setup for a Windsor over the 3.85" for hot rods, because they'll tend to want to spin them higher and will usually buy aftermarket rods and high dollar pistons... once you're at that point, it really doesn't matter what crank/rods/pistons you buy as they're pretty much the same price across the board.

BUT, for a truck application that isn't going to be shifted much higher than 5500rpm and isn't going to make more than about 400-450hp, the budget 3.85" approach makes LOTS of sense!!

so much so that I'm planning on a 3.85" Windsor to replace the 351 that's currently sitting in my truck.


oh... one more thing...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!
whatever you do, DO NOT choke off that big cube engine with peanut cylinder heads... plan on spending at least $1500 on heads/pushrods/rockers. PERIOD.

you would be better off with a pair of AFR 185's on a bone stock 351W than with a pair of GT40 heads on a 408.

but you'd be REALLY well off w/ a pair of 185-205's on a 393!

Forrest

 

oh, and that last note about the heads is another reason why a big block is a nice thing if you can afford the space under the hood and transmission issues... the heads flow a ****load better than small block heads...

(and you get great rod geometry, a bulletproof block, MORE CUBES!! etc. etc. etc.)

but I've got an early bronco that's already set up for a small block, so the 393 makes more sense for my application.

Forrest

 

You can always put Cleveland heads on it and make it a "Clevor".

 

Forrest

Thanks for the most informative post. I am playing with the idea of a stroker 351 for the truck in my gallery. I absolutely don't need a new engine but you only live once. I've built a zillion engines but never a stroker before.

And now for my question that may come off as ludicrous to many. What is a good stroker for my street 53 F100. I will not compromise reliability, drivability or get 8 MPG. It doesn't have to last 100,000 between rebuild either. I could live with a little serious engine freshening every 30,000 or so. But shucking rods on an out of town cruise won't get it either. FUel efficiency is of some importance to me. I want to put considerable miles on my truck. My truck meets your description for a stroker candidate IMO. I have mucho money and effort invested in setting it up for a smallblock. Big blocks are cool, but I don't need the clearance issues. My truck is already bigtime nose heavy.

No offense to stroker 302 fans but I don't see any reason to build a stroker that will be no better than a 351W in my low RPM application.

How would you set up the rest of the engine/truck. I dont want to re-invent the whole truck. Recommendations for Carb, heads and gearing? I have a fresh C-4 currently. The engine would rarely see 5000RPM. The truck will never see 100MPH.

Would a non-stroked 351W meet my needs.? Absolutely, but it's a common underhood occurrence and this may be my last cool project. It certainly will be if my wife has her way.

Thanks

 

I'm not a big fan... the Windsor has a 9.5" deck, the Cleveland has a 9.2" deck... so often times, you're stuck buying $800 custom headers... there's only two bolt-on intakes for that setup, and they're pretty scarce, and they're designed for higher RPM operation.

Ford was headed in the right direction w/ the Cleveland, but then the smog era hit, and they were unable to do what was later done in NASCAR and make the ports and valves SMALLER!!!

I'd rather have a Windsor style head/intake/etc. on a Windsor block... the "Clevor" deal is a little too "one off" for me.

Forrest

 

well, if it'll rarely see 5,000 RPM?

start with a later 351 roller block...
buy a cast 393 crank, use stock Windsor rods and a 302 replacement piston.
run some AFR 185 heads
a Weiand "Stealth" intake
a 750 vac secondary carb
something like the Ford "E303" cam (if you're REALLY serious about the 5000rpm thing!)
and run some 2.73 gears

it'll be a torque monster, your current C4 converter will probably be about perfect, and you'll be able to chug along at 80mph just over 2500rpm. and it'll still probably supprise a mustang or two if they should happen to pull up next to you!

with such a low shift point, I don't see why you wouldn't see 60k+ before it needs a refresh... (honestly? if a stock Windsor can go 200k+, I don't see why a 393 won't go 100k+)

realisticly, a Windsor might fit the bill better if you're looking for the best mileage... it'll just wind out about 500rpm higher with the same heads/cam/intake, but it'll drink a little less gas at cruise.

but the stroker will give you a better push in the lower back when you romp on it!

Forrest

 

Forrest

I am serious about the 5000 RPM. My truck was not intended for high speed from the factory. I have improved it with IFS but it's still a nose heavy 50s truck. It will tear the tires up good with my 302. It's very light in the rear. Just don't know when I would be turning high RPM other than screwing around doing a good burnout now and again. The engine you are describing won't need to be wound up much at all to torch the tires. Thanks for your advice. I'll research those pieces you mentioned.

 

actually, an engine that makes its power in the higher RPM range will be easier to keep from spinning the tires... BUT, a torque monster will be a lot more fun!

Forrest

 

in my opinion.....if mileage needs to remain a higher priority...I would do a long-rod 351w instead of a stroker 393. I have built one(393) for a customer(mild), and know several guys who have them in various vehicles.....good mileage has NEVER been a strong suit. My customer went mild on everything, in order to try to achieve similar goals, and now has about 6-10 mpg in town, and 9-13 mpg highway, with 3.50 gears and a fresh AOD. I tried talking him into doing the long rod setup instead, but was under the belief that the stroker setup would be better. Do not get me wrong, strokers work great, a future project of mine involves a stroker engine, but they have their intended applications. I always try to improve efficiency(also improves power) first, then throw big-power parts at it later....$.02

 

My 69 Ranger short bed is complete after 3 years of work and just some minor twekking is all that remains.

1979 351W block (393stroker)
scat crank 3.85
Weisco pro-tru flat top pistons (-5cc relief)
main cap girdle with studs
Eagle h-beam rods w/ arp bolts
Crane .562 lift hyd. flat tappet cam
pete jackson timing gear drive (love the sound)
World heads victor sr. aluminum 2.02/1.60 64cc
arp head stud kit
edelbrock torquer II
Holley 750 DP
Hooker super comp headers (modified to fit)
X-pipe with flowmaster 50's
4-spd toploader and 4.57 locker 9 inch

compression worked to be 10:8.1 with the 64cc heads;didn't do my homework before installing weisco's are would have installed an inverted dome with more relief to run 61cc or 62cc heads (edelbrock or trickflow) to give a lower compression but I'm satisfied with the performance of the world heads. I didn't build the truck for cross-country cruising but for around town and Saturday night shootouts and this setup is a hand full. Low end torque is awesome and hard shifting through the power band (2300-6800) with street tires(BFG 295/50-16's) brings back the good old days of muscle cars and burning rubber. Soon it will sport a set of rear slicks and check out what my 1/8 mile e.t.'s will be.

 

Moose

Would love to hear more about the long rod engine. I am just weighing the options for a intelligent decision. The engine in my truck has 100 miles on it. We got time and I don't want a garage queen. I have the resources to fund a good engine. I just don't want to feed it daily for the entire time I own it. Get the money spent up front and do it right 12 MPG is acceptable. 8 MPG is not. Just has to be something a little different than a vanilla F150 engine. Even if its not apparent on inspection.

 

http://www.alternativeauto.com/water..._strokers.html

Before I get off on the wrong foot. Does anyone see anything wrong with the explanation laid out in this link. It seems to give a pretty good overview of stroker 351Ws.

 

Great overview.
Okay, long-rod recipe....
later (75-up 351w) block
stock crank
400m rods modified for use on a 351w crank(wayne's engines)
KB flattop pistons(part # available later)
Crane cam(Part # later.....something powermaxish...lol. Around a 272 duration....if possible, I would do a roller cam conversion)
Edelbrock Performer intake(port match to heads, and go up the runners quite a bit)
Edelbrock 600 or 750 carb
good ignition source
1 5/8ths primary tube headers
2 1/2 dual exhaust w/H or X pipe crossover(the X pipes sound neat...lol)
And.....the big dollar part.....AFR 185 heads.
This combo should give you around a 11:1 compression ratio. But with the longer rods, should still run on pump gas, even with 87 octane unleaded. This combo will take you well over 400 hp and 425 lbs.ft of torque, and that is a conservative rating.....and with a small cam. Oh, and still be positively nasty.....if this sounds like it is too much, just go with your 302, and long rod that one instead, just substitute AFR 165 heads in place, stick with a 600 cfm carb, 2 1/4 exhaust, and a 1 1/2 primary header set. I would, however, go to a port-matched performer RPM with the 302. The 302 should be good for well over 350 hp, and similar torque values, and still remain easily street driveable. However, with the 302, I would locate a late model roller cam block and redo that one instead, as roller cams are a bolt in with that block, and common as grains of sand, whereas with the 351, it gets expensive to do the roller conversion. You also have a huge choice of roller cams available for the 302 roller block....
Your choice, but if you are happy with the 302 in your truck, the truck appears to be fairly light, so the 302 becomes a good option to retain. I do not remember what you were running in your current combo( I have not posted here in a while), but heads are everything......if the 302 is fun to drive behind now, a long rod setup and AFR heads should be a blast....and remain easily street driveable.

 

this are some great posts thank a lot