The time is nearing for me to go ahead and shoot my truck full of steroids. Talking with David Lott of Diesel Innovations yesterday the question he asked yet once again was, "What do you want to do with your truck?" I replied I wanted a more powerful and quicker every day work horse that will never fail. He said 160/stock nozzles will, "Get it!", the truck with the single shot stock nozzle injectors with the stock turbo (and stock hpop) producing 390 hp and keep me on the road.

At the moment I use my truck for work and play so she's on the road every day, most days all day. I can average 500 miles a week and usually do.

My question is I was more leaning towards 160/100's. I'll further get into detail with David in weeks coming about why he suggested for me to remain with stock nozzles on these singles but for now I'd much appreciate the forum members opinions and insight. Are 160/100's not as reliable? What about these 238 hybrids? Is anyone using these bigger injectors for hard labor each and every day and what are your experiences with them if you do?

Btw, I was also asked by David what HP I was wanting to achieve to which I replied 400. He asked why. I said because of my rods. What I don't want to happen is to get these 160/stocks and then be disappointed in the power output, I don't want to be left wanting more although I fear that's a lose lose situation for myself regardless the injector size, but can a 400 hp 7.3 be a reliable every day work truck?

Thanks.

 

Get 238/100 hybrids. Have David tune them back. As funds allow you can open them up.

Rods are not the issue. Tuning is. Lots of trucks over 500 for a long time with good tunes.

 

I'd think those would be too much for this truck with pmr rods, although I was unaware you could tune the injectors up and down. Still, I don't think those would be right for this truck, I'd never get the full use (power) out of them. Would I?

I'm also going to put a new Garret 38R in the (hopefully not so distant) future, don't want to break the rods or cam or anything. A balancing act of multiple bolt ons is what I'm envisioning.

 

TCR, is your truck lifted? Does it have bigger wheels and tires?

I have AC codes with stock nozzles on my old blue F250. It's an extended cab short bed, two-wheel drive rig with stock wheels and tires.

As much as I liked the AC's, I wish I had gotten them with bigger nozzles.

My trucks are used as my daily driver/work truck. I tow a 10k lb dump trailer with it as well as my 31' travel-trailer.

The truck is now my daughters truck and I replaced it with an extended cab long bed with a 6" lift and 37's that I KNOW if it had AC's, I would be very disappointed in the trucks performance.

Stewart

 

Stock height, stock rims and tires.


I'm not quite following what you're saying about the a/c's, Stewart? You're saying to go bigger than 160's?

 

Actually, I'm just trying to let you know how I felt, so you can draw your own conclusions.

Seeing a pic of your truck, I bet you'd be happy with AC's and 100% nozzles.

Stewart

 

Very well put sir.

I love my stage ones. I built my truck for work. See sig below.

Do you have bellowed up pipes? I think a 38r is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Our trucks are getting up there in miles thus requiring a $400 ish set of uppipes. Factor that in.

If I was gonna do it over I would go hybrids and a t4 mount with a 66/74 or maybe a 63/68 charger.

But now my truck is a DD so I am gonna start beating this thing up and see how long she survives. See if my 360k stock tranny can live. I love being 100 miles from BTS haha

 

If anything she'll be eventually getting lower to the ground with street rims and tires. I understand what you were getting at, Stewart. Makes sense that if I'm not pushing as much I don't need as much.

What's the expected hp difference in stock nozzles and 100's? Any reliability issues I should worry about, is one better than the other as far as that's concerned?

Thanks.

 

OK heres the deal. Stock nozzles will flow the same amount no matter the CC rating of the injectors. That being said, a set of 400cc/stock nozzle injectors will flow fuel at the same rate as a stock nozzle. That being said, the only way to make more power with stock nozzles and higher CC injectors is to extend the pw and raise ICP. This will lead to more power, but it will also run a lot hotter. IMO nozzles are more important than CC ratings. I daily drive with a set of 250/200% hybrids and have no issues. I run cooler than many with stock nozzles.

Basically what nozzles allow you to do is be way more precise with the timing and the injection of the fuel. This creates better efficiency and smoother power. A 200% nozzle can inject the same amount of fuel as a stock nozzle in less than half the time meaning no need for 5ms PW. This creates lower EGT's and more usable power. For a daily driver, this is ideal. IMO buying injectors and not getting nozzles on them is a waste of money. Personally I would never put anything less than a 200% nozzle in any truck I own.

In the end its your money, but do some more research on nozzles. Being able to be more precise allows you to run with less cylinder pressure, and will allow you to make more power without putting your rods in jeopardy. Basically I see no reason to worry about PMR's unless you're planning on taking the first tune that anyone makes. You want to make power higher in the RPMs and not have a torque biatch. Keep Cylinder pressures down, and the force on your PMR's will be way less and they will live longer. Not saying to go with 400/200's but a set of 238/200's would be perfect. Could tune them way down and run them at about half their potential and have a really crisp running truck. I'd recomend 100% nozzles but in my experience the machining process to make 80% into 100% can lead to variences in nozzles and spray patterns that make them pretty tough to tune.

 

160/100 and a 38R is a great work/towing and reliable setup

In my obs I had 180/80, stock turbo and BTS tuning and never had a issue. I go by this. Have your tunes built for what you do with your truck and mods not necessarily just the mods you have so you can get all the power you can. Your and your will will be happy

 

Probably why David said to go stock, but can I ask how's the machining difference in making what size nozzles into 200's any more reliable or easy to tune than turning 80's into 100? Or are 200's made 200's and that's it. And thanks, this is the exact type of information I was looking for to help with my decision.

(and thanks for helping me out after all of my nonsense)

 

From what I've read, I wouldn't mess with stock or 30% nozzles. Waste of time and money for the upgrade. 80% can be tuned very clean with very little smoke if any. If that's important take it into consideration.

For mine I cant decide between 160/100's or detuned 238/80 or 100's...

 

200's are made 200's, at least from everything I've ever found. 100's are 80's that have been extrude honed (I think this is the right term, there are two of them and I can never remember them). Basically they media blast them into slightly bigger holes. You can imagine what issues this will cause when you're injecting fuel at high pressure...

I'm not sure why he would recommend stock. Probably because 160/stock are literally stock injectors capable of holding longer PW and making more power. Like I said though, that longer PW creates a lot more heat.

 

The 30%'s are Extrude Honed (EH). The 80 and 100% are Electric Discharge Machined (EDM).

 

There we go. Thank you for the correction. From my understanding though, the 80 is an EH as well...