So I have a good running '74 2V Cleveland stuck down in my factory 4v 1970 Ranchero Squire, and I have a the correct 70 closed chamber 4V that needs to be gone through but it has good heads. Since the '70 carried an 11:1 compression ratio and 2V engine is significantly lower, is the difference between the two in the short-block (dished pistons?) or do the quench heads make that up? If its all in the heads, I don't see why I don't just stick the correct 4v top end on the 2v engine that's down in the car, add a hotter, longer duration cam and have a very happy Ranchero.

The reason I ask this question is that I know the 1970 M code 351C was rated at 300-ish horsepower and the 71 M code engine had a half point less CR and about 20 less horsepower, and I figured the difference would be in the pistons. My '70 block has flat-tops, but I haven't seen a dissected '71 M code engine. I wouldn't think the heads would be that different.

Does anyone have any clue where the difference is between the two close-chambered engines? Any Cleveland gurus out there?

Now, I know there are people who are gonna chime in and tell me the 4V's aren't for street usage because you need too much RPM to make use of the GINORMOUS ports on the 4V heads and I should just stick with the 2V's, but since I have the performance pieces sitting around (the top end of the '70 M code engine) why not put them to good use? I have driven 2V engines and 4V engines and the difference is night and day.

 

Its all in the head for 2v vs 4v. Piston is for CR control. The CR can get carried away real quick. If you want the best of both worlds check out 2v aussie heads. The 4v heads would be a miracle worker for a clevor W.

As for the difference between 4v's, piston difference is the best i can come up with.

 

.. As I recall, the '70 and '71 351C 4V engines have mini-domed pistons, 64cc chamber heads, and mild performance cams, whereas 2V engines have dished pistons and 76-79cc heads and smaller, base level cam...

.. If your one block actually has flat top pistons, I'd suspect they were replaced or it's a lower compression ratio '72 - '74 4V 351C engine...

.. Putting the 4V heads on the 2V engine with a mild street cam (214/224 - 219/229 duration at .050" lift) should give a very noticable boost in high RPM power... just remember that torque kinda goes hand in hand with cubes, so don't expect a big jump in torque, you'll need to rev a little higher to get the additional HP... also, if the vehicle has a stiff economy rear end ratio, it's not going to suddenly become an instant rear tire annihilator... 4V 351C's gave best musclecar performance with 3.25 - 4.56 rear ends...

 

The car has a 3.25 hogs head in it. The casting numbers on the '70 block are for the 4V M code and the heads are matching '70 castings with the closed chambers. I sorta wish the block were the later 4V engine (Q-code Cobra Jet), most of those had 4-bolt mains. The pistons look like flat tops, but then again I havent piddled with the block more than peel the heads off and see it was in bad need of honing and re-ringing because some condensation settled in the block after it was pulled and stored in a shed for a decade. I just don't want to throw money around on that bottom end just yet.

On the bright side, I have run down a REALLY CHEAP 400 and C6 in a '79 lincoln and with an expensive set of adapters, 4V intake and afore-mentioned 4V quench heads I could be in tire burning beater heaven with the old Ranchero. I am thinking factory built stroker Cleveland botom end with the only take-away being the required adapter plates.

Also, Buzz, you seem to have been around the Cleveland engines a bit...I have a stock 4V intake and a Re-Dang-Diculous Strip Dominator for the 4V engine... Is the Edlebrock Torquer a good medium between the two or is a dual plane intake that doesn't really fit the 4V ports the best selection?

 

.. I'd prolly just use whichever intake I have on hand that more or less fits for a beater... may be able to find a used Eddy 400 Performer for less than the adapter plates... use the 2-bbl. setup until a used one shows up...

.. .. The '79 400 heads prolly have the exhaust ports nearly blocked by those air injection bosses... although they aren't too hard to remove with a die grinder... although the bowl areas may also be impinged by the relocated water jackets of later heads..

 

No, I was asking about which Cleveland 4V intake would have the better street manners. The only reason to use the 400 is in conjunction with the 351 C 4V heads and price motorsports adapter plate that allow the 351 C 4V intake, because alignment problems with the 400's intake and the 4V ports. I figure the Cleveland engines would be better than running a stock (read "boat-anchor") 180 some horsepower 1979 400. I'd leave the 2V engine (I've seen rated at around 220 hp) in place before doing that.

And not to rag on the Ranchero as a dog, but everything I own I look at as a beater, and I wouldn't even subject a beater to a stock 400.

 

look into the air gap intake edelbrock 351 cleveland. Did a 400 ford with 4v heads and spacer plates and 351 cleveland air gap. Once all the work was done and ported and flowed and even flow on ports we got 270cfm on port flow. this is pretty good for this little intake. didn't really port out hard but just wanted to get even flow per port. I have many photos if curious in my photos. this combination with big port heads works pretty good probably the best bang for the buck in your situation unless you stick with factory dual plane. yes their will be a big port mismatch and your engine will just pull what is needed and will help port velocities with this intake and carb signal for low end performance. few other upgrades needed to help low end and just drop a message if curious.

 

No, '70 & '71 4V had a cast flat top piston & the cam was small, very small, a real turd that everyone into performance threw out back then. 2V engines didn't get dished pistons till '73. The Cleveland is a high winding motor, my favorite compromise ratio will always be the 3.89's with a Cleveland. A 3.25 or even 3.50 will leave a lot on the table.

 

Yeah, but with 225 70 15s on the back, the small tires will do a lot to make up for the highway gears compared to a 31 inch truck tire.

I had a recently sold a 69 mustang with 215 65 15s on the back on the back and a 3 speed and the 3.00 gear with a pretty aggressive cam made for lots of 3500-5500 rpm fun. Driving it was like driving a Honda with Vtech. The car was downright brutal in the mid ranges and until I snapped the pinion driving like and idiot, I thought it had 3.55s just with the way it pulled. Pull from 1000 to 3000 wasn't so bad that I realized I was missing anything.

 

.. I guess I was confusing 11:1 1970 351 Cobra Jet engine with 351C's and assuming domed pistons from the compression ratio...

.. Found this chart of Cleveland head cc's on another forum:

Nominal combustion chamber volume:
1970 D0AE heads = 63cc
1971 D1AE heads = 66cc
1971 D1ZE heads = 75cc
1972 D2ZE heads = 75cc
1973 D3ZE heads = 78cc
1974 D3ZE heads = 78cc

TRW L2416F Piston Compression Height? - Topic

Muscle Car Engine Shootout - Ford Vs. Chevy Hot Small-Block Dyno Showdown - Hot Rod Magazine

 

YIKES, I didn't think the 70 DOAE heads were that small. Also, I wasn't aware Ford called the M-code Clevelands "Cobra Jets"... I thought that moniker was reserved for the open chambered headed 4Vs of the Q code 72s and 73s. A friend of mine Recently bought a 73 Ranchero with the Q-code Cobra engine. Now that thing is groosely lazy in the bottom end and PINGS like a *****.

 

.. LOL! Your friend needs to add a couple ounces (1/4 coffee cup) of kerosene to a tank of gas to get the octane up high enough that he can enjoy that 351C properly... he may also have to adjust the ignition timing and advance rate a smidgeon...

.. D0AE heads seem to be claimed around 61-63cc's... actual compression ratio was prolly closer to 10.1 - 10.2:1 than the claimed "11.0" to one... Ford likes to round upward...

.. Chevy used domed pistons and 64cc heads to get their claimed 11.0:1 engines...

.. Hot Rod magazine did get good high RPM HP out of those stock reproduced Clevelands, though, at that link... can't seem to find the link to their other 1970 Chevy LT1 350 vs 351C article... think they got even a couple more HP for the 351C in that one...

 

how high rpm do you want? Aussie 351c in the 1972 GTHO ph3 could go to 7000rpm, but was limited to 6125. 4 bolt bottom end though I believe.

 

The Phase 3 was a REALLY cool car. Shaker hood, 4-speed, something equivalent to the US Boss 351 Cleveland engine. All bolted to a much better looking, once Aussie-fied, '69 Falcon 4-door body. The guys down under have all the cool cars, with their Utes and V8 Supercar touring series.

 

G'Day all great convo
Heh Smiffy A friend of mine has a xy gtho phase 3. He has just had the motor rebuilt and to our surprise it was 2 bolt mains. I have a cobra jet block and it is also 2 bolt.
I am with tbolt regarding the 4v heads whack em on don't let em rust and the edelbrock air gap is a great intake. That's the combo I am using in a xy falcon ute see pics in my garage