Apparent COP problem. Unfinished business.
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Apparent COP problem. Unfinished business.
Sorry for the melodramatic thread title. 
I've been following a gazillion threads on several forums on the infamous COP misfire issues with these trucks. I have a 99 which I bought recently. It's an old work truck but for its mileage it's in decent shape. 231k on the clock and I will primarily be using it for hauling around my dirtbikes. Anyway, enough of my pseudo intro to the site.
My existing *main problem is exactly as stated in many other threads. 40-50mph shudder when cruising. Not existent when hard on throttle.
So this weekends I took on the task of changing out all 8 coils and plugs replacing them all with Motorcraft parts. Unfortunately, this didn't resolve my issue. I'm at a loss and extremely disappointed that after all that I'm back to square one.
*I say main problem because the truck does idle a bit rough. Specially immediately on start up. Once the RPM's settle it idle much better but it shakes a bit intermittently. From what I've read this was a common condition to having a bad COP. I've replaced 2 hoses that were extremely dry rotted and have checked for vacuum leaks and have found no apparent issues there. I changed the PCV.
I'm not sure where to go from here. Any other suggestions?
I've been following a gazillion threads on several forums on the infamous COP misfire issues with these trucks. I have a 99 which I bought recently. It's an old work truck but for its mileage it's in decent shape. 231k on the clock and I will primarily be using it for hauling around my dirtbikes. Anyway, enough of my pseudo intro to the site.
My existing *main problem is exactly as stated in many other threads. 40-50mph shudder when cruising. Not existent when hard on throttle.
So this weekends I took on the task of changing out all 8 coils and plugs replacing them all with Motorcraft parts. Unfortunately, this didn't resolve my issue. I'm at a loss and extremely disappointed that after all that I'm back to square one.
*I say main problem because the truck does idle a bit rough. Specially immediately on start up. Once the RPM's settle it idle much better but it shakes a bit intermittently. From what I've read this was a common condition to having a bad COP. I've replaced 2 hoses that were extremely dry rotted and have checked for vacuum leaks and have found no apparent issues there. I changed the PCV.
I'm not sure where to go from here. Any other suggestions?
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 143
As you changed all the coils out, there is still a posibiity one of the new coils is faulty. That is always the posssibility when changing them all and you come to the conclusion it wasn't the coils when it actually is still one coil.
Based on the mechanics of how the missfire comes about:
.
The missfire occurrs in that speed range and OD because the EGR opens.
When this happens the air to fuel ratio becomes very lean.
If one coil has shorted turns, it's output voltage is too low and missfire is the results.
Stepping down on throttle or downshifting causes the EGR to close so the A/F ratio goes richer and the missfire stops so no code or CEL is set.
.
I would reccomend at this point, to shorten the hassle time and expense of guessing, get someone with a 'Scanner' that can be set up to 'trap' the fault when it happens.
This freeze frame data will tell which cylinder is the fault and other data that may be usefull.
This is why advanced disgnostics are provided over simple code and light indicators.
Good luck.
Based on the mechanics of how the missfire comes about:
.
The missfire occurrs in that speed range and OD because the EGR opens.
When this happens the air to fuel ratio becomes very lean.
If one coil has shorted turns, it's output voltage is too low and missfire is the results.
Stepping down on throttle or downshifting causes the EGR to close so the A/F ratio goes richer and the missfire stops so no code or CEL is set.
.
I would reccomend at this point, to shorten the hassle time and expense of guessing, get someone with a 'Scanner' that can be set up to 'trap' the fault when it happens.
This freeze frame data will tell which cylinder is the fault and other data that may be usefull.
This is why advanced disgnostics are provided over simple code and light indicators.
Good luck.
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Last time I went to NAPA to get a reading from a high end scanner they told me that my Blazer needed a tranny rebuild and not one more bit of info was provided. Charged me $100 to tell me what I already knew.
Is there any other way for me to pinpoint what cylinder is misfiring without having to go the scanner route? I don't know anyone with such a tool.
Is there any other way for me to pinpoint what cylinder is misfiring without having to go the scanner route? I don't know anyone with such a tool.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 143
If you have your old coils, pick one and put it in the first cylinder and test drive for the issue.
If the issue is still there it's was not the first cylinder's coil so use that one to sub all the rest one at a time until you find the cylinder that has the faulty coil.
Be sure to use the dielectric grease on the insides of the boot tips so the boot 'find' the plug tip when you set the coil back in place.
.
Best I can do for you, otherwise for about $180 you can get your own Scanner to do the job and would have likely saved you money and time..
These are computer controlled motors so the complexity can give you a hassle without knowledge and tools to work with.
Never trust a vendor to be acurrate with a reader/scanner unless that person is knowledable and experienced on the specific make.
Too many run with a what was reccomended or mis interpet the code/s and waist money and time causing the frustration you now might have..
Sorry for the lecture like but other people may get benifit from all this when their searches find this thread..
Good luck.
If the issue is still there it's was not the first cylinder's coil so use that one to sub all the rest one at a time until you find the cylinder that has the faulty coil.
Be sure to use the dielectric grease on the insides of the boot tips so the boot 'find' the plug tip when you set the coil back in place.
.
Best I can do for you, otherwise for about $180 you can get your own Scanner to do the job and would have likely saved you money and time..
These are computer controlled motors so the complexity can give you a hassle without knowledge and tools to work with.
Never trust a vendor to be acurrate with a reader/scanner unless that person is knowledable and experienced on the specific make.
Too many run with a what was reccomended or mis interpet the code/s and waist money and time causing the frustration you now might have..
Sorry for the lecture like but other people may get benifit from all this when their searches find this thread..
Good luck.
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$180? That's all? I thought scanners were 1k plus. ?? have any recommendations of which one to get?
I've taken out the plugs already twice. I did it once and when I still had the misfire I retraced my steps to make SURE I did everything correct. So I am a master COP putter-on-er and take off-er. lol.
Believe me, if there is anyone that I'd be willing to sit here and get an earful about this stuff without as much as a peep from me it's you, Bluegrass 7. I've read your posts. Thanks again for the replies.
I've taken out the plugs already twice. I did it once and when I still had the misfire I retraced my steps to make SURE I did everything correct. So I am a master COP putter-on-er and take off-er. lol.
Believe me, if there is anyone that I'd be willing to sit here and get an earful about this stuff without as much as a peep from me it's you, Bluegrass 7. I've read your posts. Thanks again for the replies.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 143
Sears markets a Scanner made by Innova that is pretty good.
Sears model 20890 unless it has changed from a few years ago.
Comes with a book.
You can read a lot of action with it.
Study the book until you see what it does and understand the screens.
Many others do the same but it's hard to tell from the outside of the packaging when you don't know what your looking at.
Good luck.
Sears model 20890 unless it has changed from a few years ago.
Comes with a book.
You can read a lot of action with it.
Study the book until you see what it does and understand the screens.
Many others do the same but it's hard to tell from the outside of the packaging when you don't know what your looking at.
Good luck.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,493
Likes: 21
If you have your old coils, pick one and put it in the first cylinder and test drive for the issue.
If the issue is still there it's was not the first cylinder's coil so use that one to sub all the rest one at a time until you find the cylinder that has the faulty coil.
Be sure to use the dielectric grease on the insides of the boot tips so the boot 'find' the plug tip when you set the coil back in place.
.
Best I can do for you, otherwise for about $180 you can get your own Scanner to do the job and would have likely saved you money and time..
These are computer controlled motors so the complexity can give you a hassle without knowledge and tools to work with.
Never trust a vendor to be acurrate with a reader/scanner unless that person is knowledable and experienced on the specific make.
Too many run with a what was reccomended or mis interpet the code/s and waist money and time causing the frustration you now might have..
Sorry for the lecture like but other people may get benifit from all this when their searches find this thread..
Good luck.
If the issue is still there it's was not the first cylinder's coil so use that one to sub all the rest one at a time until you find the cylinder that has the faulty coil.
Be sure to use the dielectric grease on the insides of the boot tips so the boot 'find' the plug tip when you set the coil back in place.
.
Best I can do for you, otherwise for about $180 you can get your own Scanner to do the job and would have likely saved you money and time..
These are computer controlled motors so the complexity can give you a hassle without knowledge and tools to work with.
Never trust a vendor to be acurrate with a reader/scanner unless that person is knowledable and experienced on the specific make.
Too many run with a what was reccomended or mis interpet the code/s and waist money and time causing the frustration you now might have..
Sorry for the lecture like but other people may get benifit from all this when their searches find this thread..
Good luck.
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Well I'm in luck as a friend of mine actually has one and will be lending it to me. It may be a few weeks before I can post up my findings. Good thing I don't use the truck for commuting. 
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Not trying to hijack Cyberdos thread, but my 03 4.6 has the same symptoms. Would this cause the "Service engine soon" light to come on? If not I will keep looking for a vacuum leak. I listened with a wooden dowel and 3 cop's were ticking and the other 5 were quiet.
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msm7c
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May 7, 2005 06:11 AM