DC Power 185 Alternator install question - HELP!
#76
02-25-2013, 05:47 AM
These alternators had better be as good as claimed and have the proper pulley and pigtail.
I totally understand their situation and realize this isn't typical, but so far I've been waiting since October 23 2012. Both of my new batteries now die way too easily and I was forced to buy an alternator to get me by. They are NOT cheap!
I totally understand their situation and realize this isn't typical, but so far I've been waiting since October 23 2012. Both of my new batteries now die way too easily and I was forced to buy an alternator to get me by. They are NOT cheap!
The alternators job is not to charge your dead batteries, it will kill it quick
#77
02-25-2013, 06:19 AM
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#78
02-25-2013, 12:14 PM
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If your batteries die way too easily, I would suggest a battery minder, your alternator will burn up if the batteries are bad, sulphated I bought this unit to keep my batteries in good condition, Batteryminders Specials | BatteryMinders.com
The alternators job is not to charge your dead batteries, it will kill it quick
The alternators job is not to charge your dead batteries, it will kill it quick
I've since bought a Napa alternator to get me by. That damn pos is as expensive as the dc! And its rated for 110 amps.... At 6000 rpm!!! Chinese junk...
#79
02-25-2013, 12:20 PM
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#80
02-25-2013, 12:49 PM
My batteries are brand new less than a year old deep cycle marine batteries 800cca. My old alternator s.t.b and stopped charging entirely. I tested and found bad grounds so I upgraded the big 3 which helped the alternator charge just enough to keep it running but it was constantly draining the batteries and needed a boost every couple times to start again.
I've since bought a Napa alternator to get me by. That damn pos is as expensive as the dc! And its rated for 110 amps.... At 6000 rpm!!! Chinese junk...
I've since bought a Napa alternator to get me by. That damn pos is as expensive as the dc! And its rated for 110 amps.... At 6000 rpm!!! Chinese junk...
Josh
#81
02-25-2013, 02:09 PM
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Starting batteries of the same size will produce more cca but have less reserve capacity. My batteries are larger, have more than enough cca and provide better reserve capacity which is important for my usage.
Starting batteries cannot be used as deep cycle batteries because the will die from deeper discharges and I would go through them fast, where deep cycle are designed to be drained and recharged. They however don't like being over charged which is what my alternator did. (shot voltage regulator would overcharge then under charge repeatedly).
Deep cycles can be used as starting batteries provided they have equal or greater cca rating. They are actually better.
The only difference between rv/marine batteries and normal batteries is the auxiliary - and + wing nut posts which are a much superior access point for adding electrical mods.
Starting batteries cannot be used as deep cycle batteries because the will die from deeper discharges and I would go through them fast, where deep cycle are designed to be drained and recharged. They however don't like being over charged which is what my alternator did. (shot voltage regulator would overcharge then under charge repeatedly).
Deep cycles can be used as starting batteries provided they have equal or greater cca rating. They are actually better.
The only difference between rv/marine batteries and normal batteries is the auxiliary - and + wing nut posts which are a much superior access point for adding electrical mods.
#82
02-25-2013, 03:01 PM
Starting batteries of the same size will produce more cca but have less reserve capacity. My batteries are larger, have more than enough cca and provide better reserve capacity which is important for my usage.
Starting batteries cannot be used as deep cycle batteries because the will die from deeper discharges and I would go through them fast, where deep cycle are designed to be drained and recharged. They however don't like being over charged which is what my alternator did. (shot voltage regulator would overcharge then under charge repeatedly).
Deep cycles can be used as starting batteries provided they have equal or greater cca rating. They are actually better.
The only difference between rv/marine batteries and normal batteries is the auxiliary - and + wing nut posts which are a much superior access point for adding electrical mods.
Starting batteries cannot be used as deep cycle batteries because the will die from deeper discharges and I would go through them fast, where deep cycle are designed to be drained and recharged. They however don't like being over charged which is what my alternator did. (shot voltage regulator would overcharge then under charge repeatedly).
Deep cycles can be used as starting batteries provided they have equal or greater cca rating. They are actually better.
The only difference between rv/marine batteries and normal batteries is the auxiliary - and + wing nut posts which are a much superior access point for adding electrical mods.
Josh
#83
02-25-2013, 07:23 PM
well...... i kinda sorta do, and he's correct.
bear with me here, i may sound snarky, but it's not intended
that way.
the battery minder you recommended is the best one i've seen
available, even at ten times it's price.
that's at the O-scope and amp meter level. it's ability to desulphate
and float charge a battery is right up there with stationary units for
use in battery rooms, in places like refineries, powerhouses, data
centers and such. those are in the $2,000 to $5,000 price range.
if the CCA on a deep cycle is the same as the CCA on a starting battery,
then it may be substituted, but not the other way around. you suck
down a starting battery to 8 or 7 volts twice, and it's off to the trash
pile.
i left the amps on in my work van for 4 days, pulling the oddesy
batteries down to *zero* volts... less than 2 volts with a DVM.
the $300 oddesy charger just spit a red light at me, which means
"spend another $600, sucker..."
i split the batteries, hooked up the battery minder, and it spit
"fail", so i disconnected and reconnected 10 minutes later, and
got the same thing for three times, then it started charging.
i fully charged it, then did the same thing to the other one, and
then yoked them back together, and hooked up the battery minder
each night, and let it desulphate them for a week... all is good.
it's been two years, and the $3,500 oddesy battery tester that
does micro inrush current to assess the batteries, says they are
putting out better than new units. and i have severe service usage
on my batteries.
it has to do with the composite signal that the battery minder
produces, it breaks up the formation of oxide in the battery and
allows it to dissolve.
as for the alternator being ruined by sulfated batteries, it doesn't
work like that.
what burns up an alternator, or the diodes inside it, is heat.
sulphated batteries won't take a charge, which means that
THEY ARE NOT DRAWING CURRENT TO CHARGE WITH,
and are not loading the alternator as much as a healthy battery
would.
i've done some tests, as i have the DC power xp 270, and it
flat screams... i start up cold in the morning, and friday morning
in HB, CA it was 38F, and the voltage on the dashdaq sits at about
12.7 volts for about 15~20 seconds, then the engine speed picks
up slightly, and the voltage goes up to 14.9 volts, with some millisecond
long spikes above the 15 volt alarm setting i have on the dashdaq.
after it's fully warmed up, the voltage drops a bit to about 14.8 volts.
it STAYS at 14.8 until i shut off the engine.
i've put a fluke ammeter with a detachable display on my main cable
and cranked.... cold, the starter draws a peak of about 775 amps
cranking, then when idling, about 180 amps with the glow plugs
running, dropping to 40 amps or so after warm up.
so, with the OEM alternator, warming up, the batteries are being
DISCHARGED, as the oem alternator is only good for 110 amps.
the charge on the batteries is making up the rest.
and the batteries are never fully charged with the OEM alternator,
as it only has an output of 13.2 volts, which is sufficient to charge
a battery to 25% of a full charge. THATS IT! you never get past
25% charge with the oem alternator. it's worthless.
so the battery drain, shows a a 60-70 amp draw down on the batteries
till the glow plugs switch off. on batteries that are only 25% charged.
this is why your batteries only last a year and a half, and your ficm
burns out... it's trying to pull 48 volts out of an amplifier that is
being fed with 13.2 volts, not 14.8 volts. it can do it, but it pulls more
current doing it, and current makes HEAT, and HEAT is what burns stuff
up.
with the DC power alternator, as soon as the engine is idling, and voltage
goes up to 14.9, the batteries are BEING charged (current flow is going
the other way, the polarity changes on the fluke) and are CHARGING
WHILE THE GLOW PLUGS ARE ON. the DC power is able to carry the full
cold start needs of the engine, and charge at the same time.
the ONLY time there is a discharge on my batteries, is during the
actual crank.
for severe alternator testing, i can boot up the stereo. the amps have
been upgraded, i'm driving the sub with a 1,200 watt alpine, and
the four door speakers with a 600 watt alpine, and at full volume,
the peak loads on the batteries/alternator combination is about 210
amp peak spikes, with an RMS average of 140 amps, playing
allman brothers "firing line" until your ears bleed.
the batteries are still charging with glow plugs and allman brothers
going.
the only way to burn out this alternator would be to short the output
to ground, bypassing the fusible links in the loom.
i'd guess at that point, you's smoke the diodes before you smoked
the winding. it's square drawn copper, in a hairpin winding instead
of a wave winding, and it can take a LOT of heat.....
i'm an electrical contractor by trade, and much of my experience
is in industrial control applications, so i've got 35 years of figuring
out why stuff burns up......
anyway, hope this helps. if you think i'm completely full of chit, feel
free to say so.... i've been extra super wrong before, and can survive
being wrong again....
bear with me here, i may sound snarky, but it's not intended
that way.
the battery minder you recommended is the best one i've seen
available, even at ten times it's price.
that's at the O-scope and amp meter level. it's ability to desulphate
and float charge a battery is right up there with stationary units for
use in battery rooms, in places like refineries, powerhouses, data
centers and such. those are in the $2,000 to $5,000 price range.
if the CCA on a deep cycle is the same as the CCA on a starting battery,
then it may be substituted, but not the other way around. you suck
down a starting battery to 8 or 7 volts twice, and it's off to the trash
pile.
i left the amps on in my work van for 4 days, pulling the oddesy
batteries down to *zero* volts... less than 2 volts with a DVM.
the $300 oddesy charger just spit a red light at me, which means
"spend another $600, sucker..."
i split the batteries, hooked up the battery minder, and it spit
"fail", so i disconnected and reconnected 10 minutes later, and
got the same thing for three times, then it started charging.
i fully charged it, then did the same thing to the other one, and
then yoked them back together, and hooked up the battery minder
each night, and let it desulphate them for a week... all is good.
it's been two years, and the $3,500 oddesy battery tester that
does micro inrush current to assess the batteries, says they are
putting out better than new units. and i have severe service usage
on my batteries.
it has to do with the composite signal that the battery minder
produces, it breaks up the formation of oxide in the battery and
allows it to dissolve.
as for the alternator being ruined by sulfated batteries, it doesn't
work like that.
what burns up an alternator, or the diodes inside it, is heat.
sulphated batteries won't take a charge, which means that
THEY ARE NOT DRAWING CURRENT TO CHARGE WITH,
and are not loading the alternator as much as a healthy battery
would.
i've done some tests, as i have the DC power xp 270, and it
flat screams... i start up cold in the morning, and friday morning
in HB, CA it was 38F, and the voltage on the dashdaq sits at about
12.7 volts for about 15~20 seconds, then the engine speed picks
up slightly, and the voltage goes up to 14.9 volts, with some millisecond
long spikes above the 15 volt alarm setting i have on the dashdaq.
after it's fully warmed up, the voltage drops a bit to about 14.8 volts.
it STAYS at 14.8 until i shut off the engine.
i've put a fluke ammeter with a detachable display on my main cable
and cranked.... cold, the starter draws a peak of about 775 amps
cranking, then when idling, about 180 amps with the glow plugs
running, dropping to 40 amps or so after warm up.
so, with the OEM alternator, warming up, the batteries are being
DISCHARGED, as the oem alternator is only good for 110 amps.
the charge on the batteries is making up the rest.
and the batteries are never fully charged with the OEM alternator,
as it only has an output of 13.2 volts, which is sufficient to charge
a battery to 25% of a full charge. THATS IT! you never get past
25% charge with the oem alternator. it's worthless.
so the battery drain, shows a a 60-70 amp draw down on the batteries
till the glow plugs switch off. on batteries that are only 25% charged.
this is why your batteries only last a year and a half, and your ficm
burns out... it's trying to pull 48 volts out of an amplifier that is
being fed with 13.2 volts, not 14.8 volts. it can do it, but it pulls more
current doing it, and current makes HEAT, and HEAT is what burns stuff
up.
with the DC power alternator, as soon as the engine is idling, and voltage
goes up to 14.9, the batteries are BEING charged (current flow is going
the other way, the polarity changes on the fluke) and are CHARGING
WHILE THE GLOW PLUGS ARE ON. the DC power is able to carry the full
cold start needs of the engine, and charge at the same time.
the ONLY time there is a discharge on my batteries, is during the
actual crank.
for severe alternator testing, i can boot up the stereo. the amps have
been upgraded, i'm driving the sub with a 1,200 watt alpine, and
the four door speakers with a 600 watt alpine, and at full volume,
the peak loads on the batteries/alternator combination is about 210
amp peak spikes, with an RMS average of 140 amps, playing
allman brothers "firing line" until your ears bleed.
the batteries are still charging with glow plugs and allman brothers
going.
the only way to burn out this alternator would be to short the output
to ground, bypassing the fusible links in the loom.
i'd guess at that point, you's smoke the diodes before you smoked
the winding. it's square drawn copper, in a hairpin winding instead
of a wave winding, and it can take a LOT of heat.....
i'm an electrical contractor by trade, and much of my experience
is in industrial control applications, so i've got 35 years of figuring
out why stuff burns up......
anyway, hope this helps. if you think i'm completely full of chit, feel
free to say so.... i've been extra super wrong before, and can survive
being wrong again....
#84
02-25-2013, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Washinhton
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One might wonder then why some of the most popular / recommended batteries on this site are classified as deep cycle?
Common example: diehard platinum battery. Copied directly from Sears site. Note the overall battery type.
Design & Construction:
Battery Design:Absorbed Glass Mat
Battery Grade
ie Hard Platinum
Container Material:Polycarbonate/polyester
Maintenance:Maintenance Free
Number of Cells:6
Overall Typeeep-cycle
Positive Terminal Side:Left
Temperate Zone:North or South
Terminal Post Location:Top
Common example: diehard platinum battery. Copied directly from Sears site. Note the overall battery type.
Design & Construction:
Battery Design:Absorbed Glass Mat
Battery Grade
ie Hard PlatinumContainer Material:Polycarbonate/polyester
Maintenance:Maintenance Free
Number of Cells:6
Overall Type
eep-cyclePositive Terminal Side:Left
Temperate Zone:North or South
Terminal Post Location:Top
#85
02-27-2013, 04:48 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Fraser Valley
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well...... i kinda sorta do, and he's correct.
bear with me here, i may sound snarky, but it's not intended
that way.
the battery minder you recommended is the best one i've seen
available, even at ten times it's price.
that's at the O-scope and amp meter level. it's ability to desulphate
and float charge a battery is right up there with stationary units for
use in battery rooms, in places like refineries, powerhouses, data
centers and such. those are in the $2,000 to $5,000 price range.
if the CCA on a deep cycle is the same as the CCA on a starting battery,
then it may be substituted, but not the other way around. you suck
down a starting battery to 8 or 7 volts twice, and it's off to the trash
pile.
i left the amps on in my work van for 4 days, pulling the oddesy
batteries down to *zero* volts... less than 2 volts with a DVM.
the $300 oddesy charger just spit a red light at me, which means
"spend another $600, sucker..."
i split the batteries, hooked up the battery minder, and it spit
"fail", so i disconnected and reconnected 10 minutes later, and
got the same thing for three times, then it started charging.
i fully charged it, then did the same thing to the other one, and
then yoked them back together, and hooked up the battery minder
each night, and let it desulphate them for a week... all is good.
it's been two years, and the $3,500 oddesy battery tester that
does micro inrush current to assess the batteries, says they are
putting out better than new units. and i have severe service usage
on my batteries.
it has to do with the composite signal that the battery minder
produces, it breaks up the formation of oxide in the battery and
allows it to dissolve.
as for the alternator being ruined by sulfated batteries, it doesn't
work like that.
what burns up an alternator, or the diodes inside it, is heat.
sulphated batteries won't take a charge, which means that
THEY ARE NOT DRAWING CURRENT TO CHARGE WITH,
and are not loading the alternator as much as a healthy battery
would.
i've done some tests, as i have the DC power xp 270, and it
flat screams... i start up cold in the morning, and friday morning
in HB, CA it was 38F, and the voltage on the dashdaq sits at about
12.7 volts for about 15~20 seconds, then the engine speed picks
up slightly, and the voltage goes up to 14.9 volts, with some millisecond
long spikes above the 15 volt alarm setting i have on the dashdaq.
after it's fully warmed up, the voltage drops a bit to about 14.8 volts.
it STAYS at 14.8 until i shut off the engine.
i've put a fluke ammeter with a detachable display on my main cable
and cranked.... cold, the starter draws a peak of about 775 amps
cranking, then when idling, about 180 amps with the glow plugs
running, dropping to 40 amps or so after warm up.
so, with the OEM alternator, warming up, the batteries are being
DISCHARGED, as the oem alternator is only good for 110 amps.
the charge on the batteries is making up the rest.
and the batteries are never fully charged with the OEM alternator,
as it only has an output of 13.2 volts, which is sufficient to charge
a battery to 25% of a full charge. THATS IT! you never get past
25% charge with the oem alternator. it's worthless.
so the battery drain, shows a a 60-70 amp draw down on the batteries
till the glow plugs switch off. on batteries that are only 25% charged.
this is why your batteries only last a year and a half, and your ficm
burns out... it's trying to pull 48 volts out of an amplifier that is
being fed with 13.2 volts, not 14.8 volts. it can do it, but it pulls more
current doing it, and current makes HEAT, and HEAT is what burns stuff
up.
with the DC power alternator, as soon as the engine is idling, and voltage
goes up to 14.9, the batteries are BEING charged (current flow is going
the other way, the polarity changes on the fluke) and are CHARGING
WHILE THE GLOW PLUGS ARE ON. the DC power is able to carry the full
cold start needs of the engine, and charge at the same time.
the ONLY time there is a discharge on my batteries, is during the
actual crank.
for severe alternator testing, i can boot up the stereo. the amps have
been upgraded, i'm driving the sub with a 1,200 watt alpine, and
the four door speakers with a 600 watt alpine, and at full volume,
the peak loads on the batteries/alternator combination is about 210
amp peak spikes, with an RMS average of 140 amps, playing
allman brothers "firing line" until your ears bleed.
the batteries are still charging with glow plugs and allman brothers
going.
the only way to burn out this alternator would be to short the output
to ground, bypassing the fusible links in the loom.
i'd guess at that point, you's smoke the diodes before you smoked
the winding. it's square drawn copper, in a hairpin winding instead
of a wave winding, and it can take a LOT of heat.....
i'm an electrical contractor by trade, and much of my experience
is in industrial control applications, so i've got 35 years of figuring
out why stuff burns up......
anyway, hope this helps. if you think i'm completely full of chit, feel
free to say so.... i've been extra super wrong before, and can survive
being wrong again....
bear with me here, i may sound snarky, but it's not intended
that way.
the battery minder you recommended is the best one i've seen
available, even at ten times it's price.
that's at the O-scope and amp meter level. it's ability to desulphate
and float charge a battery is right up there with stationary units for
use in battery rooms, in places like refineries, powerhouses, data
centers and such. those are in the $2,000 to $5,000 price range.
if the CCA on a deep cycle is the same as the CCA on a starting battery,
then it may be substituted, but not the other way around. you suck
down a starting battery to 8 or 7 volts twice, and it's off to the trash
pile.
i left the amps on in my work van for 4 days, pulling the oddesy
batteries down to *zero* volts... less than 2 volts with a DVM.
the $300 oddesy charger just spit a red light at me, which means
"spend another $600, sucker..."
i split the batteries, hooked up the battery minder, and it spit
"fail", so i disconnected and reconnected 10 minutes later, and
got the same thing for three times, then it started charging.
i fully charged it, then did the same thing to the other one, and
then yoked them back together, and hooked up the battery minder
each night, and let it desulphate them for a week... all is good.
it's been two years, and the $3,500 oddesy battery tester that
does micro inrush current to assess the batteries, says they are
putting out better than new units. and i have severe service usage
on my batteries.
it has to do with the composite signal that the battery minder
produces, it breaks up the formation of oxide in the battery and
allows it to dissolve.
as for the alternator being ruined by sulfated batteries, it doesn't
work like that.
what burns up an alternator, or the diodes inside it, is heat.
sulphated batteries won't take a charge, which means that
THEY ARE NOT DRAWING CURRENT TO CHARGE WITH,
and are not loading the alternator as much as a healthy battery
would.
i've done some tests, as i have the DC power xp 270, and it
flat screams... i start up cold in the morning, and friday morning
in HB, CA it was 38F, and the voltage on the dashdaq sits at about
12.7 volts for about 15~20 seconds, then the engine speed picks
up slightly, and the voltage goes up to 14.9 volts, with some millisecond
long spikes above the 15 volt alarm setting i have on the dashdaq.
after it's fully warmed up, the voltage drops a bit to about 14.8 volts.
it STAYS at 14.8 until i shut off the engine.
i've put a fluke ammeter with a detachable display on my main cable
and cranked.... cold, the starter draws a peak of about 775 amps
cranking, then when idling, about 180 amps with the glow plugs
running, dropping to 40 amps or so after warm up.
so, with the OEM alternator, warming up, the batteries are being
DISCHARGED, as the oem alternator is only good for 110 amps.
the charge on the batteries is making up the rest.
and the batteries are never fully charged with the OEM alternator,
as it only has an output of 13.2 volts, which is sufficient to charge
a battery to 25% of a full charge. THATS IT! you never get past
25% charge with the oem alternator. it's worthless.
so the battery drain, shows a a 60-70 amp draw down on the batteries
till the glow plugs switch off. on batteries that are only 25% charged.
this is why your batteries only last a year and a half, and your ficm
burns out... it's trying to pull 48 volts out of an amplifier that is
being fed with 13.2 volts, not 14.8 volts. it can do it, but it pulls more
current doing it, and current makes HEAT, and HEAT is what burns stuff
up.
with the DC power alternator, as soon as the engine is idling, and voltage
goes up to 14.9, the batteries are BEING charged (current flow is going
the other way, the polarity changes on the fluke) and are CHARGING
WHILE THE GLOW PLUGS ARE ON. the DC power is able to carry the full
cold start needs of the engine, and charge at the same time.
the ONLY time there is a discharge on my batteries, is during the
actual crank.
for severe alternator testing, i can boot up the stereo. the amps have
been upgraded, i'm driving the sub with a 1,200 watt alpine, and
the four door speakers with a 600 watt alpine, and at full volume,
the peak loads on the batteries/alternator combination is about 210
amp peak spikes, with an RMS average of 140 amps, playing
allman brothers "firing line" until your ears bleed.
the batteries are still charging with glow plugs and allman brothers
going.
the only way to burn out this alternator would be to short the output
to ground, bypassing the fusible links in the loom.
i'd guess at that point, you's smoke the diodes before you smoked
the winding. it's square drawn copper, in a hairpin winding instead
of a wave winding, and it can take a LOT of heat.....
i'm an electrical contractor by trade, and much of my experience
is in industrial control applications, so i've got 35 years of figuring
out why stuff burns up......
anyway, hope this helps. if you think i'm completely full of chit, feel
free to say so.... i've been extra super wrong before, and can survive
being wrong again....
I'm starting to regret cheaping out and buying bigger than the dc185.
I'm running a similar set up to yours I got a 400 watt alpine amp powering my alpine R dor speakers and a 1000 watt alpine powering 2 12" subs. Crystal clear sound I love it but it hogs power... And greatly accelerated my alternators demise. I found upgrading the big 3: chassis to engine ground, both chassis to battery ground, and alternator to battery power as well as battery to battery power, made an immense difference in how hard the alternator has to work.
Do you know of any really good online resources for electrical information, I'm a first year heavy duty tech and electrics are my weak point but I
Love learning about it (and electrical mods kick ***!)
#86
02-27-2013, 11:21 PM
#87
02-27-2013, 11:50 PM
#88
02-27-2013, 11:56 PM
#89
02-28-2013, 12:01 AM
Battery or Alternator is one of the MAIN things that make it run Poor at the Start and will eventually Kill the FICM
I had a Battery with 1 Bad Cell awhile back I was amazed how much better it ran upon startup with 2 Good Batterys almost a Night and Day diff
use a Battery Hydrometer to check each bat cell its Very accurite way to check them and you get to leave them in the truck to test instead of Pulling them to take into the auto parts store for the Good Load test there. the Hydrometer test is as Good
I had a Battery with 1 Bad Cell awhile back I was amazed how much better it ran upon startup with 2 Good Batterys almost a Night and Day diff
use a Battery Hydrometer to check each bat cell its Very accurite way to check them and you get to leave them in the truck to test instead of Pulling them to take into the auto parts store for the Good Load test there. the Hydrometer test is as Good
#90
02-28-2013, 12:03 AM