Ax providing information that keeps us informed is not wrong some may think you are on a soap box but most of us really do appreciate the information and your willingness to share and help. As they say don't let the turkeys get you down.

 

FF, I've always liked you and respected your views, but I don't have any idea what you are talking about here. What I reported was not my whining, but was the assertions of very knowledgeable and respected people in the automobile aftermarket industry published in a major national publication. I have not personally experienced any deterioration or stuck injectors, but I now know to expect and watch for it. I have experienced a measurable performance drop in my Solstice's 60' times, and a 2-3 mpg drop in mileage as reported by my car's dashboard MPG meter since I could no longer obtain E free gasoline. I guess you would tell the auto manufacturers to "suck it up" and live with the jump in engine failures with E15 for the "good of the country"?? E fuel isn't significantly impacting the country's consumption of crude oil, just putting more money in the pockets of mega agri-biz plus we are still exporting domestic oil production. If ethanol is such a great fuel, why are you not driving a flex fuel or 100% ethanol powered vehicle except on the drag strip?

 

I have a few exotic motorcycles in my stable, and I've had several issues with E10 in these bikes. I've experienced melted crank seals & float needle tips, corrosion of the aluminum internals of the carbs (float chambers) & fuel tanks, and swelling plastic parts. Ducati North America is also reporting swelling and leaking fuel tanks within 6 months.

Anyone running plastic or aluminum fuel cells, I highly suggest coating the inside of the tanks with Caswell Epoxy Sealer. It's the only product that will withstand Ethanol.

Until suppliers start making Viton seals and rubber parts for the old vehicles, we are screwed.

 

AX, although we frequently disagree, I respect your opinions as well, and have learned a great deal from you on a variety of subjects. I am very confident the auto manufacturers can and will adjust to higher levels of ethanol. I don't drive a flex fuel because I don't have a daily driver nearly that new. A couple years from now I will have my daughter through school and that may be an option. For now, I DD a 2001 and use E10. As far as ethanols impact on the countries total consumption of oil, we should be consuming about 10% less since there appears to be no other option in most parts of the counry now. Does 10% really matter? I don't really know, but it seems like a good start in the right direction.

 

Here is a prime example of Ethanol's magic after only 5 weeks of pulling moisture from the air, the alcohol evaporating and leaving a cornmeal type residue. These carbs were cleaned and the bike was ridden for the day. I removed the fuel tank for storage, and 5 weeks later the bike would not start. Off with the carbs again to find this!

 

I don't drive a Flex Fuel vehicle because the sensor that determines the fuel's ethanol content costs $700+ and has a life expectancy of only ~5 years.

 

That looks like the coating from the fuel tank.

 

Steel tank on this bike that is not coated.

 

Are you sure? Steel tanks on many bikes are coated at the factory to prevent corrosion. Same looking stuff came out of my Harley after about 18 yrs. use.

 

FF if everyone is getting 10-15% less mileage doesn't that offset your 10% savings -so what the big advantage???

 

Agreed. I have a flex fuel Tundra. With ANY amount of ethanol, the fuel consumption is greater. The mileage is lower. The cost in Dallas area is quite similar (typically 5-10 cents cheaper than 87 octane E10). So the net cost is decidedly greater and I see no incentive to throw money at E85. As for E10 or E15, I must use one of them here. So, I use more fuel than I would if using "pure" petroleum fuel. Net use of petroleum is nearly identical. So, while I'm subsidizing the buggers who ran small farms out of business, we're using effectively the same amount of petroleum. I lose, big business gains, and the country's petroleum intake varies by little to naught.

 

The #1 export from the US is now refined fuels... what does that tell you?

 

We won't get a solid resolution on this, but the conversation is still interesting to me. Again, AX isn't whining, he is posting up concerns (some much more valid than others IMO). With that said, a few things for consideration ......

-If 10% of the total content of your fuel tank has approximately 30% less BTU (potential less energy, less mpg), that doesn't qual 10%-15% overall fuel economy decrease. Math doesn't work. Could be AXs experience in his car. It isn't mine though and I have been burning the stuff a long time in many vehicles. Does E10 give less mpg potential? Yes it does, that is scientifically indisputable. I just haven't found much difference when I flip back and forth.

-I never said we were saving money with E10. Post it up if I did and I will retract the claim. 100% gas cost 10 cents a gallon more per gallon here (3%). Prices vary and I don't have an explanation. Could be taxes, I don't know.

-How much would gasoline cost if we cut ethanol today and demand more crude tomorrow? I don't know, but common sense says that spikes crude prices the second the market opens Monday? We'll get gouged. Bank on it.

-damage reports are real, but not scientific. My 53 has a plastic gas tank, rubber fuel lines and an aluminum carb. Sits for months at a time with old E10 in it. Just took it for a ride. Runs great. Carb has not been apart since 2004. I am going to pull the lid on it soon out of curiousity.

-scroll up for much of the basis for my personal reasons for ethanol support. It's not really economics.

-Regarding E10-15-20. I am doubting adequate research has been conducted for an increase in ethanol. I concede that E15 or E20 may be a bad idea. Do I think E10 is a big deal? No, not at all based on 25 years of running it and working on other peoples cars. I worked as a mechanic in an independent hop when this E10 thing started, Saw a couple phenolic carb parts melted up badly A few rubber hoses and O-rings softened up. Some fuel filters that probably clogged from the ethanol cleaning out old gas tanks. No great calamity of broken cars on the road. My experience is just that, just mine, others have had issues in one form or another.

-when I build a performance car with use of 93-94 E10 Premium in mind, I can run more timing advance, more compression etc. These are just my toys though. I can adjust my fuel MAP and timing tables at will. Flip a switch and detune for low octane (no ethanol) real gas if I want. Car slows down a bit for sure, but it runs OK on the 87-89 regualr gas.

 

15% enthanol is on the way unless you act NOW. Send a message to your federal senators to support S.344 to stop this increase. Also join the sema action network.