If you never owned or worked on a British vehicle you won't understand.
Understanding wiring terminal types
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 1
From: Waleska, GA
I had a 79 MGB and tried to use the smokeless terminals.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 3
From: Morgan Hill, CA
[QUOTE=ALBUQ F-1;12667002]I don't understand why crimpers aren't made so the "point" on one jaw is in the middle of the "cavity" on the other? That's how virtually all OEM/assembly line crimped fittings
Ross,
The stake type crimpers do look like what you described... They more or less drive what amounts to a punch into the side of the connector
Dan
Ross,
The stake type crimpers do look like what you described... They more or less drive what amounts to a punch into the side of the connector
Dan
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
That brought back some bad MG memories. But I think the best display of bad OEM electronics I ever witnessed was at a local salvage yard some years ago. 15 Jags parked in a row, 12 had clearly been on fire.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,294
Likes: 1,055
From: NM
When I was in HS, on the way home on the bus we were behind some rich kid whose parents had bought him a beautiful new Austin-Healey 3000. It was gorgeous, silver blue and white two-tone. All the gals were digging it. All of a sudden there was a puff of smoke and it burned to the ground in front of our eyes (the guy got out OK). Fuel lines had blown off, and there was no safety to shut down the pump....
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,294
Likes: 1,055
From: NM
Have you used them on car wiring? I might try a set.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 3
From: Morgan Hill, CA
Yes...I use them for most crimp on connectors. Mine look kind of like this:
Sta-kon Crimping Tool | QC Supply
There are a few things like crimping pins onto wires for molex connectors that requre a special crimp tool. Those have a portion that crimps onto the stripped wire, and another that crimps onto the insulation for strain relief.
When I'm connecting things that are out in the weather like boat trailer lights and the tail lights that I put into my bumper, I still fall back to soldering the wires, slathering on a little silicone sealant, then shrinking some shrink tubing over the whole thing.
Dan
Sta-kon Crimping Tool | QC Supply
There are a few things like crimping pins onto wires for molex connectors that requre a special crimp tool. Those have a portion that crimps onto the stripped wire, and another that crimps onto the insulation for strain relief.
When I'm connecting things that are out in the weather like boat trailer lights and the tail lights that I put into my bumper, I still fall back to soldering the wires, slathering on a little silicone sealant, then shrinking some shrink tubing over the whole thing.
Dan
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
All kidding aside!:
There are two basic generic types of connectors commonly used on automotive wiring, with each type requiring a different crimping tool and method:
1. barrel type connectors. This is the most commonly used type to connect a wire to a screw or bolt connection. They typically come in 3 sizes (barrel or wire size, not ring or spade size) have an insulating plastic jacket that also acts as a strain and vibration relief. The barrel sizes are coded by the color of the jacket, i.e. red, blue, yellow. Here is an excellent article on the barrel connector and how to crimp it.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf Note that a proper crimp on a barrel connector is actually two crimps and uses a tool with two C shaped jaws that DOES NOT spike the barrel or pierce the insulation. Note also that soldering is NOT recommended, and forbidden on aircraft wiring!
2. flag type connectors. These are usually non insulated terminals that have two pairs of open metal flags the stripped wire is laid into rather than inserted into a barrel, one set to hold the wire and make the connection, the other pair wraps around and secures the insulation. The insulation clamping pair are often cut at opposite angles to form long points. This type connector is often used in pin and socket quick connects, but occasionally seen with a ring or spade type connector.
The flag connector is crimped with a tool that has one jaw shaped like a rounded bottom V and the opposite jaw protrudes to fit into the V and is shaped like a small letter M at the end. To crimp the flag terminal, the conductor wire securing flags are crimped first. The open ends of the flags are arranged to face into the bottom of the smaller V jaw and the protruding jaw's end is brought down against the back of the connector at the base of the flags. Squeezing the tool causes the flags to curl back into a heart shape and then squeeze together and down on the wire. The larger set of jaws are used similarly to roll the other set of flags over the wire insulation. the pointed flags wrap around the insulation rather than curling back into a heart. Again note that the terminals should not be soldered.
The stake type crimping pliers often found in DIY stores for a few bucks or included with a terminal assortment are used on solid wire, which is not used in automotive wiring or where it will be subjected to movement and/or vibration.
There are two basic generic types of connectors commonly used on automotive wiring, with each type requiring a different crimping tool and method:
1. barrel type connectors. This is the most commonly used type to connect a wire to a screw or bolt connection. They typically come in 3 sizes (barrel or wire size, not ring or spade size) have an insulating plastic jacket that also acts as a strain and vibration relief. The barrel sizes are coded by the color of the jacket, i.e. red, blue, yellow. Here is an excellent article on the barrel connector and how to crimp it.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf Note that a proper crimp on a barrel connector is actually two crimps and uses a tool with two C shaped jaws that DOES NOT spike the barrel or pierce the insulation. Note also that soldering is NOT recommended, and forbidden on aircraft wiring!
2. flag type connectors. These are usually non insulated terminals that have two pairs of open metal flags the stripped wire is laid into rather than inserted into a barrel, one set to hold the wire and make the connection, the other pair wraps around and secures the insulation. The insulation clamping pair are often cut at opposite angles to form long points. This type connector is often used in pin and socket quick connects, but occasionally seen with a ring or spade type connector.
The flag connector is crimped with a tool that has one jaw shaped like a rounded bottom V and the opposite jaw protrudes to fit into the V and is shaped like a small letter M at the end. To crimp the flag terminal, the conductor wire securing flags are crimped first. The open ends of the flags are arranged to face into the bottom of the smaller V jaw and the protruding jaw's end is brought down against the back of the connector at the base of the flags. Squeezing the tool causes the flags to curl back into a heart shape and then squeeze together and down on the wire. The larger set of jaws are used similarly to roll the other set of flags over the wire insulation. the pointed flags wrap around the insulation rather than curling back into a heart. Again note that the terminals should not be soldered.
The stake type crimping pliers often found in DIY stores for a few bucks or included with a terminal assortment are used on solid wire, which is not used in automotive wiring or where it will be subjected to movement and/or vibration.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Wired my entire truck this way, permanent solution, takes too long, but never fails you.
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,577
Likes: 29
From: Pekin, IL
Hey thanks for all your input!
I haven't had a single email notification about this post..
So technically if I have Thomas and Betts crimpers, I need Thomas and betts terminals?
I haven't had a single email notification about this post..
So technically if I have Thomas and Betts crimpers, I need Thomas and betts terminals?
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
No, just need the correct type crimping tool for the type (barrel, flag, stake) terminal, not brand. If anyone REALLY wants to know the difference the different letters mean, download this catalog: http://www.panduit.com/stellent/grou...log/068549.pdf
NOTE: the letter types in my first post were meant as a joke and those types (AFAIK) do not actually exist!
NOTE: the letter types in my first post were meant as a joke and those types (AFAIK) do not actually exist!
Thread Starter
|
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,577
Likes: 29
From: Pekin, IL
No, just need the correct type crimping tool for the type (barrel, flag, stake) terminal, not brand. If anyone REALLY wants to know the difference the different letters mean, download this catalog: http://www.panduit.com/stellent/grou...log/068549.pdf
NOTE: the letter types in my first post were meant as a joke and those types (AFAIK) do not actually exist!
NOTE: the letter types in my first post were meant as a joke and those types (AFAIK) do not actually exist!
Seriously though, I will download that catalog and do a little studying.
I am starting to think I need to stop thinking so much!
This really is interesting though...I never stop learning here!
Thank You all!!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 3
From: Morgan Hill, CA
All kidding aside!:
There are two basic generic types of connectors commonly used on automotive wiring, with each type requiring a different crimping tool and method:
1. barrel type connectors. This is the most commonly used type to connect a wire to a screw or bolt connection. They typically come in 3 sizes (barrel or wire size, not ring or spade size) have an insulating plastic jacket that also acts as a strain and vibration relief. The barrel sizes are coded by the color of the jacket, i.e. red, blue, yellow. Here is an excellent article on the barrel connector and how to crimp it.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf Note that a proper crimp on a barrel connector is actually two crimps and uses a tool with two C shaped jaws that DOES NOT spike the barrel or pierce the insulation. Note also that soldering is NOT recommended, and forbidden on aircraft wiring!
2. flag type connectors. These are usually non insulated terminals that have two pairs of open metal flags the stripped wire is laid into rather than inserted into a barrel, one set to hold the wire and make the connection, the other pair wraps around and secures the insulation. The insulation clamping pair are often cut at opposite angles to form long points. This type connector is often used in pin and socket quick connects, but occasionally seen with a ring or spade type connector.
The flag connector is crimped with a tool that has one jaw shaped like a rounded bottom V and the opposite jaw protrudes to fit into the V and is shaped like a small letter M at the end. To crimp the flag terminal, the conductor wire securing flags are crimped first. The open ends of the flags are arranged to face into the bottom of the smaller V jaw and the protruding jaw's end is brought down against the back of the connector at the base of the flags. Squeezing the tool causes the flags to curl back into a heart shape and then squeeze together and down on the wire. The larger set of jaws are used similarly to roll the other set of flags over the wire insulation. the pointed flags wrap around the insulation rather than curling back into a heart. Again note that the terminals should not be soldered.
The stake type crimping pliers often found in DIY stores for a few bucks or included with a terminal assortment are used on solid wire, which is not used in automotive wiring or where it will be subjected to movement and/or vibration.
There are two basic generic types of connectors commonly used on automotive wiring, with each type requiring a different crimping tool and method:
1. barrel type connectors. This is the most commonly used type to connect a wire to a screw or bolt connection. They typically come in 3 sizes (barrel or wire size, not ring or spade size) have an insulating plastic jacket that also acts as a strain and vibration relief. The barrel sizes are coded by the color of the jacket, i.e. red, blue, yellow. Here is an excellent article on the barrel connector and how to crimp it.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf Note that a proper crimp on a barrel connector is actually two crimps and uses a tool with two C shaped jaws that DOES NOT spike the barrel or pierce the insulation. Note also that soldering is NOT recommended, and forbidden on aircraft wiring!
2. flag type connectors. These are usually non insulated terminals that have two pairs of open metal flags the stripped wire is laid into rather than inserted into a barrel, one set to hold the wire and make the connection, the other pair wraps around and secures the insulation. The insulation clamping pair are often cut at opposite angles to form long points. This type connector is often used in pin and socket quick connects, but occasionally seen with a ring or spade type connector.
The flag connector is crimped with a tool that has one jaw shaped like a rounded bottom V and the opposite jaw protrudes to fit into the V and is shaped like a small letter M at the end. To crimp the flag terminal, the conductor wire securing flags are crimped first. The open ends of the flags are arranged to face into the bottom of the smaller V jaw and the protruding jaw's end is brought down against the back of the connector at the base of the flags. Squeezing the tool causes the flags to curl back into a heart shape and then squeeze together and down on the wire. The larger set of jaws are used similarly to roll the other set of flags over the wire insulation. the pointed flags wrap around the insulation rather than curling back into a heart. Again note that the terminals should not be soldered.
The stake type crimping pliers often found in DIY stores for a few bucks or included with a terminal assortment are used on solid wire, which is not used in automotive wiring or where it will be subjected to movement and/or vibration.
If you buy the dow corning white silicone, it doesn't contain the acetic acid. It's also approved by name for use (by name) on some military contracts.
I have had the local FAA rep tell me that on solderless splices, I had to use solid tube type connectors and they had to be staked. I also had to have the staking tool calibrated. Our local maintenance inspector had been an avionics guy for years and was very picky on wiring. We had a good working relationship.
Dan
Thread Starter
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,577
Likes: 29
From: Pekin, IL
Soldering in aircraft wiring isn't forbidden. The feds prefer that we use solderless connectors. They do, however provide a nice tutorial on how to solder wires in their advisory circular for mechanics. That document (AC65-15a) recommends twisting the wires together, soldering, then potting with a compound.
If you buy the dow corning white silicone, it doesn't contain the acetic acid. It's also approved by name for use (by name) on some military contracts.
I have had the local FAA rep tell me that on solderless splices, I had to use solid tube type connectors and they had to be staked. I also had to have the staking tool calibrated. Our local maintenance inspector had been an avionics guy for years and was very picky on wiring. We had a good working relationship.
Dan
If you buy the dow corning white silicone, it doesn't contain the acetic acid. It's also approved by name for use (by name) on some military contracts.
I have had the local FAA rep tell me that on solderless splices, I had to use solid tube type connectors and they had to be staked. I also had to have the staking tool calibrated. Our local maintenance inspector had been an avionics guy for years and was very picky on wiring. We had a good working relationship.
Dan
Pretty cool story!