Click on the link in the begining of the thread there are pics comparing all the wheels. Look closely and you can tell the difference. Then compare yours

 

Wow
Van turbo with that wheel would really be impressive.
Very good alternative to the 38r.
I wish I had my old job so I could test a wheel out. Now I barely drive the truck (supertanker, pics of truck in my garage) 15k a year. I previously put 40-50k easily, with all different loads and speeds.
Oh well.

 

So, it is ok to go over 30psi on the stock turbo now????

Why is it OK now but not before???

 

Here is what Bill @ PHP posted in another forum:

As for the all the concerns about breaking turbos at 40 <acronym title="lbs per sq inch">PSI</acronym>, I seriously doubt there is any reason for concern. What kills turbos is overdriving the turbine and galling the bearings. Normally, to achieve boost values in the 30+ <acronym title="lbs per sq inch">PSI</acronym> range with a stock turbo, you have to really push the limit of what the turbine can handle. This usually means extremely high drive pressures. If you can increase boost without any significant increase in drive pressure, the chance of turbo failure is no greater than with the stock wheel.

 

Oops
I've run my truck for 100k with 35psi. No issues except for the stock boots blew up.

Along with drive pressure you need to be concerned with heat generated.
There is minimal gain from 30 to 35psi, especially when charge temps go up 40*.
Increase flow not boost. You get more power and less heat that way.

It's too bad my truck I'm building now has twins. I'd have tried a compound setup with this wheel.

I'm curious about potential lag due to new geometry. But that's probably part of the testing phase they are doing now.

 

It would be interesting to see some comparative turbo shaft speed numbers along with a knowledgeable interpretation. I think Bill mentioned plans to do something along these lines on that other forum.

Here are the speed sensor kits Garrett sells:

Products | Turbochargers

 

I put way more miles than that on stock turbo(s) making that kind of boost, with stock sticks and 175cc single-shots...

The 38R made a little less boost, but more power and lower EGT's with comparable spool-up times. I never measured backpressure with stocker, but always ***umed the backpressure was lower w/38R.

My understanding is the .84 stock exhaust housing and smaller exducer on the turbine wheel was the limiting factor of the 'stock' turbo. This is why the van turbo and/or 1.0 exhaust housing on a stock charger are better 'cures' for surge on trucks that have this problem and why backpressure at higher RPM's is lower than the stock turbo. The WW just moves less air...

A truck turbo turbine wheel has a 76.20mm inducer and a 67.73mm exducer (79 trim) and a .84 exhaust housing.

The 38R has the same turbine wheel but comes stock with a 1.0 exhaust housing. (the comp. wheel is 65.86mm/88mm - 33% larger exducer than stocker)

The van turbo turbine wheel has a 76.20mm inducer and a 69.84mm exducer (84 trim) and a 1.15 exhaust housing. (this explains the 'lag' and high altitude limitations of this option) It uses the same comp. wheel as stocker.

IIRC, my new S366 has an 80mm inducer and a 74mm exducer (turbine wheel) and a .91 exhaust housing.

There is a delicate balance and ultimately a compromise made with all of these dimensions. ie, smaller AR exhaust housings tend to spool faster, but raise BP at higher RPM's and larger AR exhaust housings spool slower, but have less BP on the top-end.

Btw, I don't pretend to understand what any of this means - but I am curious if the compressor wheel can be THAT much more efficient.

 

I am optimistic. I could install this wheel and put a high flow outlet....then be able to use the full potential of my 160/30's. Right now I get smoke at WOT.

 

Jason or anyone who might be able to help me understand the statement:
A truck turbo turbine wheel has a 76.20mm inducer and a 67.73mm exducer (79 trim) and a .84 exhaust housing. I don't understand the term or size of inducer and exducer?? And I ask because since I took my stock E99 turbo and installed a 1.0 w.g. turbine housing with stock E99 w.w. I have lost my bottom end but it pulls like a raped age on the top end. My goal by going with a 1.0 housing was to lower drive pressure which I have and I am wondering if I could find some middle ground by either going to this NEW w.w. or maybe I should go to a stock late99 compressor wheel.

Now I am sure I could make up the differents I am looking for in tuning but due to $$$ issues I am still running stock tunes. And actually I really would like to get all bugs worked out before going to tunes to cure my issues if that can be done. Thank you for any insight you may have on this subject.

 

I think you are supposed to use the stock wheel with the 1.0 housing right. The ww is to eliminate surge but the 1.0 housing should cure that.

 

Copied from another forum:

RSWORDS explains:

To understand why and how one compressor wheel flows differently than another, you need to understand the anatomy of the wheel itself. Let's take a look at the following picture:



Two key parts of a compressor are the inducer and the exducer. The inducer (sometimes called the minor diameter) is the part of the wheel that first takes a "bite" of ambient air. The exducer (sometimes called the major diameter) is the part of the wheel that "shoots" the air--now compressed--out of the turbo. Just remember that the inducer is where the air comes in and the exducer is where the air exits. Got it? Good.

You need to understand those two terms in order to grasp the concept of trim, a bizarre bit of tech-speak which is often thrown about. Trim is simply a term to describe the size of a specific compressor within a family of wheels. It can be expressed in abstract ways (such as when Turbonetics says they have P-trims, Q-trims, etc) or you can use the actual numeric measurement (50 trim, 57 trim, etc). Here's how you calculate the measurement:

Trim = (minor diameter / major diameter) ^2 * 100

So now we have a way to perform some math and get a number. What does it all mean? Generally speaking, the larger the trim the more flow the wheel will have. Nevertheless, one should not rely solely on a trim measurement when selecting a compressor wheel! Find out specific wheel measurements (inducer and exducer), understand how subtle differences will affect airflow and response, and then choose a wheel accordingly.

Speaking of subtle differences, let's take a look at them. First, the inducers:



What happens when you upgrade to a larger inducer while retaining the same exducer? The most notable change is more airflow capability; since the turbo is taking a bigger "bite" of air in every revolution, it can obviously "spit out" more air as well. Gee, more airflow aounds great... so why not go to the biggest inducer you can find? Because that creates two main problems, one much more important than the other. The smaller problem--really it's just a nuisance--is the turbo will now have a little more lag during spoolup (because the bigger wheel weighs more, plus it has to do more work with each revolution, etc). While this extra lag might not be noticed on a dyno--all the bystanders will be oohing and ahhing at the huge top-end horsepower such a turbo would produce--it would make for dissatisfaction in your day-to-day drive and could even cause you to lose a drag race to a car with less peak horsepower but more area "under the curve" due to his turbo that spools sooner. The real trouble with a large inducer increase but no exducer increase, though, is it makes the turbo much more likely to surge. Surge is the situation when the compressor "spits out" more air than the engine can swallow, which causes a backup of air at the intake and it actually creates reverse-flowing pressure waves that can be very damaging to the turbo. You want to avoid surge at all costs.

Okay, so maybe we won't go hog nuts wild with the inducer. How 'bout the exducer? Let's take a look:



When you upsize the exducer without modifying the inducer, the exact opposite effect happens: your spoolup time is reduced. Why does this happen? Remember that a compressor "spits out" the air in a radial fashion. The larger exducer gives a higher wheel edge speed for a given shaft speed, and that higher edge speed means the compressed air exits at a higher speed than before... and thus it builds boost faster. Another effect of this upgrade is an increase of the compressor's pressure ratio capability without a significant increase in its maximum flow rate; we'll discuss these more later on.

So now let's tie it all together. If you want more power with similar response, look for an upgrade of both diameters. The larger inducer will net you more airflow and thus greater power capability, while the larger exducer keeps boost response within reason and lessens the chance of surge.

(Stop and take a deep breath--you've digested a lot of info.)

 

Glance over the attached picture... the exducer and inducer terms are both associated with the max & min diameters of the turbine wheel blades which is fed by the exhaust gas.

 

Jason's cut and paste skills are obviously faster than mine.

 

WOW.... you aren't kinding that is like trying to pour a 12oz beer into a shot glass !!! It is going to take me a few times of reading this to let it soak in. One shot glass at a time! But this is GREAT info and will help me to understand the facts. Thanks Jason!!

JT250 I too have heard that to be the case but I just wonder if I go that route I might end up running into problems on the top end. Since the E99 is a smaller intake, syder and injectors. I would think it might cause a surge at top end on the highway under load. So I wonder if any guys have gone that route and had any negative effects??

 

Just lucky that time...

Sooo, my wheels are turning now (it hurts a little, but I'm ok for now! ).

The stock '99-up compressor wheel appears to be 62mm/80mm and the 'wicked wheel' is 59mm/80mm - but I saw some conflicting data so I'm not sure...

There is also a difference in the wheel design - which makes a difference in 'how' they move air. Kind of the way 'cupping' increases the effective pitch of a boat propeller.

Here's what Bullseye says about their 'Batmowheel' (which looks very similar to Bob Riley's new wheel...)

We are proud to announce the latest developement in Turbocharger design by Bullseye Power! The BatMoWheel compressor wheel. Not only is it aesthetically enticing, but the functionality of it is what is the most appealing. The curved blade design is engineered to have more surface area than a standard straight blades, which is to produce flow equal to a larger standard blade wheel. For example, the 66mm wheel would have the equal surface area of a 71mm. However, this alone is not enough to produce the outstanding results. Their extended tip technology as well as the actual curves of the blades also account for it's performance.

Fwiw, their wheels seem to have lost popularity in the PSD world as the newness wore off. This was the end-all solution not long ago, but nobody talks about it anymore... It was also $399 IIRC!