Using vegetable oil for fuel
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Using vegetable oil for fuel
I plan to install a kit to use vegetable oil in my 96, E350 powerstroke which has a Diablo chip and a 203 degree thermostat. The kit uses hot water from the cooling system to preheat the vegieoil to about 170-180 degrees F (the hotter it is the less viscous the oil is). At this temperature the vegie oil will be about twice as viscous as diesel.
1. Are there any modifications that can be made to optimize powerstroke for this fuel? Would increasing the injector pressure help?
2. Has anyone had any experience doing this?
Thanks
1. Are there any modifications that can be made to optimize powerstroke for this fuel? Would increasing the injector pressure help?
2. Has anyone had any experience doing this?
Thanks
Senior User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 138
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From: CT, USA
Using vegetable oil for fuel
That's great!I'm running WVO in my VW TDI.
As far as I know, a few guys are running their 6.9 and 7.3L Navistars's on WVO too. Check at biodiesel.infopop.net. Search on the above displacements and 'WVO'.
In general any older indirect-injection ( w/ pre-chamber ) will run
veg. oil w/o problems. There must be over a hundred running it in old diesels including M-B's and Cummins and IH's.
The problem is the newer direct injection diesels. The vo doesn't completely burn and leads to carbon deposits , 'coking' in the comb. chamber. And gummmed rings.
Checkthis site for the 'SVO Controversy'
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html
background info:
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html
Some DI engines don't seem to have the problem. A dozen VW TDI's have gone > 10,000 miles on std dual tank heated vo setups. One in Germany has gone 50,000 miles.
The VW TDI has a pocket in the top of the piston that forms a sort of pre-chamber. If unburned vo gets on the cyl. walls, coking results.
The best bet is to find someone else who is running their DI 7.3L on vo. Or go to www.elsbett.com. they make kits to allow DI engines to run vo. My TDI has an Elsbett kit.
Good luck.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Denton,TX
Using vegetable oil for fuel
Originally posted by Motoxman_117
I am wondering if the biodiesel would hurt the powerstroke?
I am wondering if the biodiesel would hurt the powerstroke?
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From: Cape Cod
Using vegetable oil for fuel
I can get fry oil from one of my distributors for about $14 for a 35 pound container(about 5 gallons). The used stuff yuo can have for free it is some nasty stuff. I wouldnt run the stuff in my PSD the injection system is to expensive for me to play with
. But on the other hand if I had an old IDI 6.9/7.3 or even a newer dddddoge Crummins i would be running every type of combustible(or even semi combustible)oil I could get my hands on
If that was the case I would have my fryers changed every day(free fuel for me)
. But on the other hand if I had an old IDI 6.9/7.3 or even a newer dddddoge Crummins i would be running every type of combustible(or even semi combustible)oil I could get my hands on If that was the case I would have my fryers changed every day(free fuel for me)
Senior User
Joined: May 2003
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From: CT, USA
Using vegetable oil for fuel
Here is another thread on running biodiesel in newer Powerstrokes. No official confirmation from Navistar, but several drivers are trying it.
Powerstrokes on biodiesel
Goto Biodiesel Discusion - Biodiesel vehicles - Find the thread titled 'Ford Powerstrokes'
Powerstrokes on biodiesel
Goto Biodiesel Discusion - Biodiesel vehicles - Find the thread titled 'Ford Powerstrokes'
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From: Plover, WI
Using vegetable oil for fuel
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Using vegetable oil for fuel
The kit I am installing costs about $685 from greasel.com.
It will enable me to use WVO (waste vegetable oil) scavanged from deep fat friers. The oil is filtered and rinsed, if necessary, to remove all particles down to below 10 microns in size. Then, it is preheated to about 180 degrees and sent into injectors. The payoff is supposed to be free, low poluting fuel from a bio-renewalable source. The question is how well the powerstroke will digest this fuel. Mercedes, VWs, Volvos, IDI Fords and other tolerate it quite well. The powerstroke has a spotty record from what little I have found. It seems the hotter the oil is the better, and the cleaner it is the better. I have installed a 203 degree thermostat to try and get the WVO temp above 180. I will be filtering below 10 microns. We shall see what happens. I am having the kit installed June 2-3. After I have put a few thousand miles, I will post results.
Chester Neel
It will enable me to use WVO (waste vegetable oil) scavanged from deep fat friers. The oil is filtered and rinsed, if necessary, to remove all particles down to below 10 microns in size. Then, it is preheated to about 180 degrees and sent into injectors. The payoff is supposed to be free, low poluting fuel from a bio-renewalable source. The question is how well the powerstroke will digest this fuel. Mercedes, VWs, Volvos, IDI Fords and other tolerate it quite well. The powerstroke has a spotty record from what little I have found. It seems the hotter the oil is the better, and the cleaner it is the better. I have installed a 203 degree thermostat to try and get the WVO temp above 180. I will be filtering below 10 microns. We shall see what happens. I am having the kit installed June 2-3. After I have put a few thousand miles, I will post results.
Chester Neel
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Joined: May 2003
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From: CT, USA
Using vegetable oil for fuel
Chester,
Congradulations! It's a gutsy move.
The hotter the better for the vo temp.
At 180*F the viscosity is 10 centistokes.
This is the maximum viscosity deemed allowable to meter correctly in a diesels fuel pump by Joshua Tickell.
He has a chart of vis. vs. temp. in his book "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank". Petro diesel is 1 -2 centistokes.
A friend mounted a remote sensing thermometer on his wvo powered diesel Rabbit. He's only getting to ~150*F. So your raised thermostat will help. Insulating the coolant lines wil also help.
Presumably coking would result if the fuel was not able to be atomized due to it's higher viscosity.
Hopefully the wvo will reach ~200*F as it passes through the injector. Others have speculated on raising the fuel injector pressure 0.5 bar, or 5 - 10 psi.
If enough unburned fuel gets to the cylinder walls it will accumulate in the crankase and show up as overfilled dipstick readings. Check every few days. Stop the wvo immediately.
Excess exhaust smoke would also be an indicator of unburned fuel. If I don't glow my gp's long enough on a cold start, I get a big cloud of smoke.
Congradulations! It's a gutsy move.
The hotter the better for the vo temp.
At 180*F the viscosity is 10 centistokes.
This is the maximum viscosity deemed allowable to meter correctly in a diesels fuel pump by Joshua Tickell.
He has a chart of vis. vs. temp. in his book "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank". Petro diesel is 1 -2 centistokes.
A friend mounted a remote sensing thermometer on his wvo powered diesel Rabbit. He's only getting to ~150*F. So your raised thermostat will help. Insulating the coolant lines wil also help.
Presumably coking would result if the fuel was not able to be atomized due to it's higher viscosity.
Hopefully the wvo will reach ~200*F as it passes through the injector. Others have speculated on raising the fuel injector pressure 0.5 bar, or 5 - 10 psi.
If enough unburned fuel gets to the cylinder walls it will accumulate in the crankase and show up as overfilled dipstick readings. Check every few days. Stop the wvo immediately.
Excess exhaust smoke would also be an indicator of unburned fuel. If I don't glow my gp's long enough on a cold start, I get a big cloud of smoke.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: East Hampton, NY
Using vegetable oil for fuel
Nice! Let us know what happens. When diesel was up to $2/gal, I was setting up to make biodiesel. I was quite unsure about running straight WVO for the reasons all ready stated. Got as far as making a test batch of the biodiesel. I ended up making glop-soap and not methylated esters. But I just eyeballed the recipe, and didn't actually measure anything.
Good luck. Hope you don't mind being the guinea pig.
-SMB
Good luck. Hope you don't mind being the guinea pig.
-SMB
