Hi Nick
To upload a pic it has to be in your album their is probly other ways but I only know this one. Once you have an album click on the pic you want to upload and it will have a url. Copy the url and then go to your message box and click on the insert image icon above in the tool box. It will ask for the url so paste it in the space provided and click upload pic. and should be all good.
Back to the motor. It fired pretty much straight away but we had to fiddle with the timing firstly to get it to run. I started at 6 deg BTDC but ended up at around 22 deg. Blown out heh. That would have only taken less than a minute. After 20 min I know cause I was timing it the war office was going off and the motor was extremely hot. So hot infact that it melted the clutch line above the extractors. At this point the clutch line is made of flexable plastic tubing. So I wasn't going anywhere now anyway. I did change the oil and filter straight after the initial start up and run in. In fact I have changed the oil and filter very regular. There were 3 changes in the first 1000 km and a change every 1000km after that including a filter change. The motor sat for a week while I waited for a new clutch line.
Once I did get it on the road I was pretty aggressive with it taking it to about 5000 rpm then then back to 2000. And any where in between for about the first fifty km then I melowed a bit I felt like I was flogging it.
It has allways seemed to enjoy a good flogging it's just drives much better after one. That may be just me though but it seemed a totally different engine after a good open up out on a long straight. It has a 750 Holley double pump with about 3/4 turn on the mixture screws. I don't know what size the jets are it runs great so haven't had the need to have a look.
I did remove the front and rear oil plugs infact I removed all plugs to clean the block but I didn't replace them with new ones I cleaned them up and putem back. I blew out all the galleries with a high pressure cleaner using a degreaser. The block had been in a acid bath so it was all bare metal no paint or rusty bitts.
Don't take any notice of my upload pic instruction cause it wont let me now LOL.
No one is perfect and their is always a posibility of crap in there somewhere so I can't discount that posibility.
My rear seal is a two piece a one piece was beyond me I only found out about them half way through the build so I stuck with plan A. It has held up though the engine hasn't leaked a drop so happy about that I know clevo's have a terrible reputation when it comes to rear end seals.
My Intended comp ratio with the open chamber heads with flat top pistons should be around 9.5 to 1
With the closed chamber 4v I should be around 11 to 1 according to the book I have.
I will check out your book though can't get enough of that stuff.
I also have seen the site that smiffy showed us it all seems logical to me. The inside of the motor looks great to me no scoring or any sign of ware looks the same as when I put it together. I will be starting to strip it soon but first I will be putting back the motor that came out of my ute. It is a cobra jet block and the motor rebuilt professionally it has also done around 5000km but I was hoping to save it for my coupe Iam restoring but there is a change of plan now.
The war office is calling

Catch ya

 

By the way you can call me Andy lot easier to spell and say

 

What oil did you use? A lot of companys are taking zinc out of there oils to break down older engines and get them off the road I.e (cash for clunkers) but if your cam didn't have enough zinc on it especially that particular lobe. Are they hydraulic lifters? Were they primed properly? Call Oregon camshaft. They can make one hell of a cam tell them what your going for and they will hit the nail on the head.

 

As long as they send to aussie and back it up he just might LOL

 

Thanks for the advice Foryota. I think I posted all the details in this thread of what oil I am using all bloody gooobly gok to me. I am definatly in the market for a good cam but I have some people to talk to in Perth and after what Neek has said I also have some questions regarding which path to go down when it comes to chosing the right valve train. This time there is no rush. Thanks for all your help Neek and heh smiffy take care of the Ol' Gal If I ever get over your way might catch up more likley Bathurst ONE DAY.

 

Hiya Andy,

LOL, your name doesn't sound very Australian any more !

Many thanks for the upload instructions. I already have a pic in my album, so let me try that out before posting some more comments.

 

Bingo !! I'm not so stupid any more !

I'll sort out a pic of my lifters later, and see if you can spot the odd one out ! LOL

Ok, I think it's fair to conclude that the break in procedure instructions weren't followed precisely, so moving on swiftly, let's consider the 30 minute break in requirement for your next build.

We know that the cam requires 30 minutes at a certain rpm, BUT, the valve springs, assuming they're new, require about 5 minutes only !

The springs must be heated up (5 minutes at a certain rpm) and then allowed to cool, as per manufacturer instructions.

So how the f$$k does one reconcile those differences ?

Simple, run the engine at the required cam rpm for 5 minutes then turn the engine off !

That will do the cam no harm at all, and as long as there is no idling, and the cam gets its dose of oil splash, the cam will be happy !

I suspected my engine would get 'too hot' if it ran solidly for 30 minutes, and because of the valve spring time limit, I just ran it for 5 minutes, at one hour intervals, 6 times. No problem.
I let it cool down, changed the oil and filter, and went for a 'dance'.

On the subject of timing, I set mine to ''about right'' and fired it up.
I actually got a scare coz it fired up immediately !
I had read all about ''it must fire within 30 seconds'' so many times that I was fixated with 30 seconds, and I suppose I expected it only to fire up in 30 seconds ! LOL

I also had read about setting the timing at initial start up.
But seriously, I was far more concerned about coolant temp, oil pressure, rpm, vacuum reading, any knocks, any rattles, any leaks, my weak heart after the shock, so I didn't have time to worry about exact timing !
Also, running it for only 5 minutes reduces the chances of running too hot, so I didn't worry about the timing.
As it turned out, the timing had been at 14* BTDC, but I only checked after about 1000kms.
The ideal timing was in fact 10*.

Well done for doing a thorough clean.
I still don't think that debris was your problem.

But tell me, how can you clean your block, put nice new shiny pistons in it, etc, etc, and then put the old plugs back in ?
Ok, call me fussy ! LOL

I heard about the one piece rear seal by chance, so I had the block machined to take one. It works a charm.
Maybe a consideration for your rebuild ?
I've never liked the idea of 2 pieces !
Mind you, I'd rather 2 rubber pieces than a bit of rope !

Those comp ratios sound about right. Have you calculated your dynamic comp ratio, cranking pressure and squish ?
There's a reason I ask that !

The book is called ''How to rebuild Ford V8 engines'' by Tom Monroe. It's very similar to the Haynes manual, but it's specifically for a rebuild and includes useful specs and pictures.

I'm pleased that you don't see any scoring, but check all journals and bearings too, the lifter/lobe debris went somewhere !!

LMAO again at ''War Office''.

Off the subject for a minute, I was looking for RHD tie rods and a drag link, and every time I googled Australian Ford Trucks Parts, I got ''F Trucks Australia'', no other parts supplier !?
I thought it a bit weird that only one supplier came up, but I phoned anyway and got a quote for $735.
But, I also got a quote for $460 for the ball stud replacements, which means I wouldn't have to change the tie rods and drag link, and shipping would be a lot cheaper.
Funnily enough, my gut feel said $735 was taking the ****, so I changed my search to find Australian Ford Truck forums, and I found one.
And in it, there was a thread showing recommended suppliers. Bonus !
I phoned All American Drive line, Eagle Parts, and Classic Pickup Supplies.

Classic Pickup Supplies impressed me the most, so I placed the order today.
The price was $455, which is still cheaper than a replacement kit !!!!

Laterz,
Nick

 

Have a look at the cam journal.

That's the first sign of trouble that I saw after seeing the lifters.

I cried like a big girl for ages after that. LOL

I realised after taking this pic, that draining the block of coolant first is a good idea !!



Then I saw the debris (or whatever the correct name is).

I cried for so long that I thought about changing my name to Mary !!


But I didn't change my name coz this next pic just makes me laugh !

Can you spot the odd one out ? LOL

 

Hi Nick
I am hearin ya regarding the break in doing it in steps never thought of that just when ya think ya know everything someone blows ya away with a simple suggestion like that. Glad you worked out the pics bit FTE look out no more .
Check this out.

Look familiar.



Looks clean to me but may be not



BY the way this block has no engine number stamped on it
It's a clean skin
Taking it out on the weekend will take pics of cam journals they look fine well the one at the front does the one furtherest away from the buggered lifter.
Heh my Coupes called Mary watch ya lingo Her number plate is PROUDMARY from the CCR song.
I will dismantle my heads and get the springs checked out I have to take the inner ones off anyway.
Cheers for the tips

eat my dust

Andy

 

Hi ''Mr W'',

What's this, a game of ''snap'' ? LOL

Before I forget, IF you do in fact fit double springs (your new cam specs will decide), follow the instructions to remove the inner spring for break in.

Must be a pain in the **** to break in, and then take the heads off again to fit the innerspring.

OR, break the bank and fit a roller cam/lifters. No break in required and no worries about the drop in oil zddp level !

Also, the cam specs may or may not specify the push rod length required. Either way ensure that the rocker roller meets the valve stem smack in the middle.

Did you check if the new heads have hardened valve seats (so as to take unleaded petrol long term) ?

You didn't say if you'd worked out your cranking pressure and squish on the new setup !?

That block looks really nice without paint !

Cheerz4now,
Nick

 

Ha, war office good, but mate used to call his missus the handbrake. My wife gave him a serve and he said he'd called her that ever since she stopped a move to a location for work which went ballistic so it was justified.
They do say to try rotating your engine and make sure that the push rods are turning when running, and if you did this on a stand with the intake still off you could check to see if the lifters are turning?

 

Hi All
Did they do this in the factory. Do they even break in cams in the factories seeing as they churn out thousands a day. Bloody ell it's all getten a bit much.
Anyhow gunna swap motors morrow and put this one away till next year and do a total rebuild AGAIN. I am keen on goin with the roller cam idea will I need to replace the push rods and the roller rockers. The rockers are the adjustable type and the rods look fine I need new lifters anyway and a cam so may as well go for it. Shoulda done it in the first place but didn't relise you could get all this stuff. Gotta remember I was only gunna build a clevo not a bloody work of art.
With the replacing the inner springs you can do it with out taking the heads off my mechanic has a tool which uses compressed air to keep the valves up and this tool compresses the springs and away you go. I am not sure I will need to put the inners back in anyway it's not as if I am gunner be racing or draging grew out of that s**t ages ago. Tyres cost to much and evryone call ya a d**k head.
Dunno about the valve seats how can ya tell. They all look shiney. I am onto the rockers sitting in the middle of the stems that was a no brainer. I have no idea what you mean with cranking pressure and squish let alone working out what they are, please advise on that one.
Heh smiffy you got me on that one with the turning lifters my simple book never mentioned that. I will be checking from now on.
I think I will be going with the total roller valve train.

Peddle to the metal

Andy

 

Hi Andy et al,



I like that one.

That's an interesting one about checking if the lifters are turning !

I reckoned that when fitting new lifters, as long as the lifters slid slowly into their bores (with a light coat of oil on the bores and lifter sides), the cam lobe hitting them off centre when running the engine, should spin them as normal.
Hmm, maybe not the best assumption to make !?

Andy, seeing as there's no rush, do some homework on the differences between the hydraulic lifter cams and roller lifter cams before making your decision.
The huge price difference put me off, as did having to modify the block (above the cam but under the manifold) to take the roller setup.

When you say Clevo, do you mean Cleveland or Clevor ?
Sh$t ! I've assumed again, this time that your engine is a 351 2v.

I'd forgotten about the fact springs can be removed/installed with the right tools !

I reckon your desired cam will run single springs anyway !
Have you decided on a cam yet ?

LOL, I don't know how to tell if the valve seats are strengthened to take unleaded !!

I asked you about squish etc because you mentioned an expected static compression ratio (SCR) of 11 : 1 with the 4v heads.
I know that an SCR of 11 : 1 without the correct cam timing and without the correct squish can give you a really crap engine (lotsa pinging {detonation}), so I'd like you to avoid that !!

Is the SCR based on a stock block deck cleveland 351 with flat top pistons, in addition to the 4v heads ?
Once I know, I'll use your specs for illustration.

I think you're going to enjoy the squish etc explanations !

Laterz,
Nick

 

Umm, just remembered the picture of the block you posted. It's a Cleveland 351.

Ok, let me know how you got to 11 : 1.

 

Hi Nick
There is no rush I have just about fitted the other clevland 351 to replace the buggered clevland 351.
The buggered one I am going to fit closed chamber 4v heads with flat top pistons and according to the piston maker that will bring me up to 11 to 1. I relise ping will be an issue but the motor I have just fitted has 2v closed chamber heads now is the compression different with these heads logically the volume in the cylinder is the same 2v or 4v. The 2v closed chamber head motor does not ping well it will if it's to far advanced and your trying to drive it up a cliff in 3rd.
I believe the block is stock as in deck hieght all I know is the pistons are flush with the deck at tdc. If they went any further I would be in the s**t as they would hit the head.
I am gunna go with the ol original GTHO specs me mates got the valve grind for them He has just rebuilt his to correct concouse and it runs like a charm just out of the factory. When I get the figures off him I'LL let ya know. I will do research about putting in a roller cam though and what needs to be done.
I have no idea at this stage still green on that one also might have a single rear seal as well but that will all be coming out of next years buget.

Anyhow back to the shed morrow

Catch ya

Andy