This is a personal evalutation of the latest technology available by two tuning hardware providers. My point of view is from reviewing the specs available online and reflecting on my personal experience with only one tuner provider, comparing Stinky with a similar truck's performance on another 80HP tune, and scrutinizing AE data from many trucks and tunes that have crossed my path. In other words, I haven't tried the new stuff out, so I can't offer up any real-word comparisons – but I can offer plenty of things to weigh while you're loading your Buck$Zooka before pulling the trigger.


The Hydra: PHP bashed DP-Tuner's F6 pitch over the fence with this product. It offers the same capabilities as the F6... and there are no mods needed to swap the F5/F6 EX controller out for those who choose to “switch”. The Hydra has one huge benefit over the DP – it's non-proprietary. Any one of a long list of tune programmers can sell you a binary file on the internet and you can load your own tunes if you challenge the Gods with your Minotaur. You can try the tunes like trying on pants – if you don't mind buying the pants before you try them on. DP has a feature where you can “try” a tune for free, I don't yet know if this is available on the Hydra. I'm also unclear how the thumb drive is utilized... maybe that is the tune storage, but DP's F6 software requires a portable computer to interface with the chip to download or change the tunes. The Hydra has shaken DP's snow globe pretty vigorously and DP will have to really ratchet it up to stay competitive. Guess what... DP did.


The Infinity: This didn't even drive to the ballpark where F6 and Hydra are dukin' it out. Yes, the touchscreen display has the cool factor, but I have no interest in watching the screen or trying to aim my finger at a 4” square while riding empty in a truck that didn't like to mention “ride” in the 1999-2003 brochures. The wow factor? High-speed data logging – to an SD card (not a bulky thumb drive or complicated laptop/software combination). AE with the Ford bundle costs $370. Try to find a laptop or netbook for less than $400. Don't forget that power adapter so the battery doesn't die. Add all that up and you have a low-speed data logger that doesn't have access to the data in the tuner (like SOI)... just the sensors on the OBDII port. True, there are no CCT or buzz tests (*EDIT* I stand corrected, so it does), but you can adjust the tire size... so there's that. Infinity is not for the techno-geek like me, it's for the consumer that knows nothing about these trucks and just wants to turn the key and drive. No more computer interface to download tunes (SD card instead), automatic alarms, data logging that gives a complete picture of the truck's performance and can be emailed to the tune programmer (Jody), touchscreen control, GPS, and a freaking music player. Even if all the consumer bells and whistles were stripped from the product, that high-speed data logging really got my attention.


I have conversed with many people on the topic of how to evaluate a tune and what feedback the tune programmer needs to accurately dial a tune for the truck. Unfortunately, our trucks are going “organic” on us. When these trucks were new and near-identical, the tune said “do this” and the truck said “OK”. Now that many of our trucks are getting old and cranky (300K-400K miles and 10-13 years), it's more like a “do this” and “Oh... I'll think about it” exchange. Throw different driving styles and mods with different goals in the mix and you end up with a “do this” and “Up yours!” battle. The tune programmer needs feedback when adapting to our trucks – lots of feedback. My AE data and trained observations are a huge help, but a tuner that does this automatically for the average consumer? Dude... seriously, what modmyster wouldn't want this capability?


Hydra will have the tech-savvy fans (Linux), where Infinity is targeting John Q. Driver (Apple)... so there is room for both on the market.


Please, I was civil to both brands... I'd rather learn something here than overdose on popcorn.

 

Subscribing. I'm quite pleased with my 'old school' chips - but always fascinated with 'the latest and greatest'.

I use high-idle regularly and drive in one tune more than 95% of the time. The ability to 'upload' tunes is over-rated IMHO, unless your tuner has a history of not getting it right the first time... I've heard some of the other popular tuners are working on security measures that help them maintain proprietary secrets and most will not 'email tunes' even to people with chip burners.

 

Awesome post!

Well I'm not going to pick that apart at all. One thing to clarify is the INFINITY does have CCT and injector testing now. We will be updating it later to a more enhanced version to include the 6.0l.

As far as proprietary goes, this new chip is proprietary to the manufacture of that chip.

One of the best things about our chip is it is made by moates.net. It comes from the best engineering minds in the hardware business with best support. We don't allow other tunes on the F5 or F6 because it creates a support nightmare. If you want tunes from others we had the F8 chip made just for that with secure tune emailing.

I would say a chip set standing alone for 4 years before something else came along is a pretty good track record. Now there's a comparison and its very good for the market. When you have a product that has nothing to compare to makes it nice, but now we have the consumer reports to back up the quality of the F6 design. This is very, very good.

Diane

 

Your chips, are the parts from global suppliers or are they made in the USA?

 

Moates.net Philosophy (READ ME) « Moates Support

It's my understanding the assemblies, firmware, and software are born here in the USA... But I'd have to look at my pictures of the chip to know where the components are from. I looked at the tab on my Carhartts and it says "Made in Mexico from USA components". I think it's about as USA as we're gunna get in a global economy.

 

Double Post!

 

pro·pri·e·tar·y   [pruh-prahy-i-ter-ee] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural pro·pri·e·tar·ies.
adjective
1. belonging to a proprietor.
2. being a proprietor; holding property: the proprietary class.
3. pertaining to property or ownership: proprietary wealth.
4. belonging or controlled as property.
5. manufactured and sold only by the owner of the patent, formula, brand name, or trademark associated with the product: proprietary medicine.


While the hardware design of any given chip could be deemed "proprietary," meaning that nobody else could manufacture that specific product, how that product is used is another matter.

Most other chip manufacturers including TS, Van Aaken, PHP, and even some Moates chips have no restrictions on software or file formatting. In these cases, any person who can create a binary file and has the appropriate available hardware and software can program their own chip. In contrast, SCT and Superchips have their own software and file format and cannot be programmed using anyone's tunes but those written through their interface. One reason that TS chips are so popular is the lack of restriction in programming.

While the hardware, firmware, software design, and code are proprietary to PHP, ANYONE is able to create calibrations and program them onto the chips without any restriction using free software that is provided. The tuning is, in fact, what could be considered "open architecture" -- an architecture whose specifications are public. The calibration format for the PHP chip allows for both industry standards prevalent in the current chip market. This allows customers greater flexibility when deciding which tuner to use or whether to tune their vehicles themselves. No restrictions... no hassles...

 

I'm confused... I mentioned the Hydra was non-proprietary and your post reads like you're countering me saying otherwise. Did I goof somewhere?

 

Nope. YOU got it right. It wasn't directed at your post; sorry... I didn't mean to be ambiguous!

 

If the Infinity was non-propriatary I would buy one today! It is the best chip/device available, no argue. As it stands I just don't want to be locked into one tuner.

Right now I have the ability to move around. If my Tuner goes out of business, no problem. If something changes an I need new tunes, no problem. I just like having options, but there are other reasons too. But for those that don't care, the Infinity is a perfect option.

 

Now I really need to save up for doing a chip and AE. I'll get there eventually, but my buck$zooka looks like it will be empty for a while.

I would still like the ODB2 code to start the buzz test though... I'll figure that out eventually. I mean there is a limited number of hex codes I can possiblely try to get there.... and only the entire ECU to kill trying them all.

 

Looks like I am pulling the trigger tomorrow to get the Infiniti with 80E and 80T. I just got back from a 450 mile round trip pulling a 7300 lb camper and my crew cab did fine loaded with kids bikes dogs, etc....but it felt like it can run better.

Tugly, Thanks for answering some of the questions I had for DP tomorrow about sending data back and forth and adjusting the tune if needed. SD card? Sweet!! I wish there was a way to try different tunes before you buy.

I'll give feedback on the Infiniti once I get the programmer and egt probe installed. I am putting in a JW VB on Thursday and that is the last piece to put in before the new kick comes out. I am really curious to find out if this 80E is as good as I have read. I do appreciate an occasional OMFG moment.

 

The infinity takes away the need for AE unless you want to bring the data with you out of the truck. Even then it seems that the infinity can allow you to put the data onto a card in order to transfer it to the computer.

 

There is a way to try before you buy. You receive a tune that's good for a certain number of starts (don't waste it on errands to town) and it just goes away after that.

Feedback is always good... it's the reason many of us are here to begin with.

The Infinity comes with the software that allows you to view your data in a 3D graph. The geek in me was squeeling like a little girl. Check it out.

 

Wow makes it look almost exactly like minotaur. Too bad its not really compatible with minotaur
...could be a deadly combination