im wondering if a 2wd lwb with a mild 306 built c6 with a shift kit ajd high stall convertor and a 9 inch limites slip with either 373 or 410 gears be a good combo for the street and a quixk truck to veat some hobdas around town

 

A street truck or a towing truck, yes. Gas mileage would be bad.

 

I think I'm going to have to disagree. I don't think a 306 is going to offer the torque to tow very well, even with the low axle ratio. And the high stall converter is going to cause all kinds of heat if towing. But, I do agree about the gas mileage.

Bottom line, these trucks are heavy and require torque to move them. The 302 doesn't have the stroke to create the kind of torque needed to make these trucks either quick or good for towing. If you are looking to buy, why would you want to limit yourself to a 302? It costs exactly the same to build a 351W as it does a 302, so why would you spend the same money to get less?

 

If he doesn't go too wild on his duration, he could pick a cam that would help the 302 with towing. I do agree that it's not optimal, but with a C6 and 3.73 or 4.10 gearing, the little 302 can do decent at towing. Not good, but decent (so long as it is ONLY in an F150). Interstate speeds wouldn't cut it though, as the motor would be spinning way too fast.

But then again, we're not talking about towing. We're talking about moving 4000 lbs down the road, and doing it fast.

This is why I'll agree and say that you can get a LOT more for the same amount if you'd build a 351 Windsor instead of the 302. With the 351 Windsor, I'd just stick a stock rebuilt C6 behind it. The torque comes in earlier with the extra stroke that the 351 offers. Throw in a towing cam, an aftermarket intake, a 600 CFM 4bbl, and a set of long tube headers and you'd have a pretty decent truck that would get up and move when you wanted it too. Also, with the 351, you could get away with going down to a 3.55 gear rather than a 3.73 or a 4.10, due to the extra torque.

Remember, even without the higher stall converters and stuff that you can put in, the C6 doesn't have a lockup torque converter. This means that when you're driving, 3.55 gears will feel like 3.73's due to torque converter slip. It simulates lower gearing. A higher stall converter really only belongs in a race vehicle in my opinion, not a street vehicle.

With a street truck, you would want your peak RPM to be 6000, and power from off idle. You'd want peak power from 2000 to around 5000 rpm. A good towing cam, intake, and long tube headers will accomplish this. Do some mild port work on the heads and you'd be even better off. Then run the most advance that she'll take.

A 351 Windsor will also bolt up to a 302 transmission/bellhousing.

Personally, I wouldn't even use the C6. I'd pick a good 4-speed.

 

Amen! What he said!

 

well i said 302 because i have the built c6 already plus 4 roller 302s. so would that combo keep me happy in town and on the highway. about 340 horse to the crank is the goal on the 302 build

 

I will repeat: It will cost you the same to build a 302 as it will a 351W, except the minimal cost of getting a rebuildable 351W since you already have a 302. However, that is a small part of the whole thing. If you haven't built the 302 I would recommend you don't and go with a 351W instead. It isn't horsepower that you need, but torque. It is impossible to get the same torque from a short-stroked engine as you can with a longer-stroked engine without spending much, much more. It is a simple matter of physics.

But, it is your money and this obviously isn't what you want to hear.

 

The only way to get the torque of a larger engine in a small displacement motor is to blow it. Doing this means low compression forged pistons, high, high octane gasoline, tuning with the timing, and modifying and tuning carburetors for either draw-through or blow-through setups.

The 302 would do decent in town for play, but don't expect to be able to pull out on the highway at 65 miles an hour and cruise with the C6, 3.55 or higher gears, and no lockup torque converter or overdrive. It wouldn't be a great offroad combination either.

At 340 horses pushing a 4000lb truck with that transmission and gearing, you'll likely only see about 15 mpg, if you're lucky and drive no higher than 55 wherever you go. Probably closer to 12 if you try to make it run on a highway.

Then, if you blow it, your gas mileage will REALLY drop.

 

It sounds like the OP is making a semi-racing truck, with regular driving. Where did the towing come in?

 

When I suggested it.

For what he's wanting to do, just ignore the towing part.

A 2000 RPM stall converter with a roller motor making 340 horses at HIGH rpm is not a good towing combination, and will make almost no bottom end torque that would be necessary to get a 4000 lb truck moving.

I could see the 340 horse roller 302 with the 2000 RPM stall in a Fox body mustang that has been tubbed with a roll cage and some weight shed, but not a 4000 lb truck. This is why Gary and I recommend the 351W.

Like you said... it sounds more like a semi-racing toy than a daily driver. Nothing driven on the streets needs a 2000 rpm stall converter.

If the OP really wanted too, he could get a 347 stroker kit to put in his 302 that would make it better for a truck, but that stall converter with the C6 and high gearing will still not work in favor of being in a truck.

 

Oh, duh. I should learn how to read everything. I agree about the 302 not being suited for a truck. It works ok in mine, but I have a 4 speed, so its not too bad. A 347 is a good option, but eventually I'd like to get a 351W.

 

Hey, don't dissuade him, he has his mind made up: Put a screaming mini-motor in a heavy truck, backed up by a loose torque converter that'll make the engine rev even going down the highway, and feed what is left of the power through Ford's most power-thirsty tranny. Of course, we haven't talked about rear axle ratios, but let me suggest 2.75's since we are doing everything else the wrong-way-'round.

 

oky. so the tranny and motor has to be rethinked. id go 460 but my sbf c6 is to good to give up on. can u take the guts and internals from a small block c6 and put them in a bbf c6?

 

Yes, if you know what you are doing. I don't, but there are those I know that do that.

But, you don't need to change your plans that radically. The 351W will bolt up just fine to your C6 and puts out a lot more torque than the 302 for the same money. Or, you can stroke that to 383 or 408 and have even more torque. Top it with a Performer intake and carb, not the Performer RPM, and you will have a lot of power to get it moving.

And, the C6 is a good, solid transmission but it does rob you of some power. However, if you have a strong engine you won't lose too much. But, the high stall torque converter isn't what you want in a truck as the weight of the truck and its load, its wind resistance, and the potential to tow something will cause the converter to slip more than the stock converter at all times. That causes heating and poor MPG. Either stick with the stock converter or go with something like the Hughes Performance Tow Master.

 

the truck will never be hooked to anything. but now whar are tge advantages to a 351 and a 460. hows does a mild 460 perform in a f150