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Air Suspension Question Front Squat Function

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Old Oct 9, 2012 | 12:48 PM
  #16  
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Moto Mel
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by alloro
Are you sure about that? I thought it would slowly go down even with the switch off. I don't mean like over the next hour, but something closer to 24 hours.
Only over a week or so it will start to ride softer. If it goes down over a day or so there is a leak in the system. Tried and tested by me.
 
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Old Oct 9, 2012 | 09:16 PM
  #17  
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I had a concurrent issue with the door ajar light on the dash coming on with all doors closed. It was said that the contact can get stuck and to spray WD-40 in the latch which I did and that light hasn't come on yet. I think that light on interferred with the system airing down and possibly up.

I have remote start and realize now that the suspension doesn't rise until the key is on. It will rise while in park and I wait for the compressor to go off and notice once I put it in gear it comes on again. I am not sure if this is to raise the rear or the front (or both) but it runs for less time.

I raised the truck in 2wd and turned off the air suspension via the switch in the rear hatch and the light came on the dash air suspension off. I will see how it does over the next day or two. I also notice a slight knock on the passenger front suspension when going over bumps but the brake mechanic didn't see anything wrong with the front suspension so I wonder if that is the shock going.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions. I wish there was a book that detail only the air suspension. It seems to be the part of the truck that even some mechanics (even Ford) are unclear of the proper operation.

Originally Posted by Moto Mel
After it is up just use the truck with the switch off for a day or two while keeping an eye on what the suspension is doing. If the system is good there should be no change in ride quality and height. After a few days you can put the switch in the on position and again, watch for changes.
Did you get the system to air up?
 
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Old Oct 10, 2012 | 12:50 AM
  #18  
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The only person I know of that seems to know these system front and back is Eddie Spinks of American Air Suspension, a sponsor here, his company has parts for what seems to be all makes of cars and trucks. He could probably write a manual for the systems but it would take away from running his business, I would imagine.
 
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Old Oct 11, 2012 | 08:31 AM
  #19  
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With the suspension pumped up and the switch off after about 18 hours I noticed the front was bottomed out again. I turned the switch on and started the truck and the pump ran for a minute or two then shut off but the truck did not rise. I shifted between the gears and went forward and back a few feet and got nothing. I drove the truck around and stopped and started and shut off the truck, open and shut the door then started it and got nothing.

I drove to school and on the way there during stop and go traffic I heard the pump come on and the front raised. I just did an online search and see a lot of owners have problems when it gets cold and that is when my problems started (the first day of freezing). After reading about the modules, sensors, o rings and fittings AND the dealer's expensive repairs I am going to try to learn as much as I can and at least narrow down the problem.

What I have found out thus far is that the pump doesn't always run
The pump will run without raising the front suspension sometimes
The front suspension lowers after sitting 8-18 hours (haven't figured out exactly how long)

During my search I found someone posted part of a manual on the 03 air suspension system and it explained the components and operations for me and gave a lot of technical troubleshooting procedures. You can click on the link then download the file which will be in pdf format which I saved on my hard drive for reference.

2003 Navigator Air Suspension System -- 605k
 
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Old Oct 11, 2012 | 08:41 AM
  #20  
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Thanks I checked his website and he listed he is a Ford ASE tech. I emailed him my problems and will wait for his response.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Moto Mel
The only person I know of that seems to know these system front and back is Eddie Spinks of American Air Suspension, a sponsor here, his company has parts for what seems to be all makes of cars and trucks. He could probably write a manual for the systems but it would take away from running his business, I would imagine.
 
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Old Oct 11, 2012 | 03:37 PM
  #21  
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Eddie Spinks recommends replacing the air shocks. If it will cost and arm and leg I will but I kinda like the up and down movement of the truck :-) Plus I pull trailers and it really helps to keep the truck level.

I talked to the ex Ford mechanic who did my brakes and he said he recalled some dry rotting on the front air bags don't know if that is the cause or not related. I also read here to spray soapy water on the fittings and I couldn't tell where the air lines ran under the hood but I recall they talked about a T fitting. I found a T fitting on the passenger side near the compressor towards the front of the engine and the rubber hose going down into it seemed not on it all the way and when I touched the hose I heard air leaking. I tried to push it on more and heard more leaking and I wiggled it until it stopped. I got some soapy water and put on that T fitting and I got soap bubbles out of 2 of the 3 connections. It seemed like a very slow leak but maybe that is enough to bottom out the front suspension after 8+ hours?
 
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Old Oct 12, 2012 | 07:04 AM
  #22  
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by rowekmr
Eddie Spinks recommends replacing the air shocks. If it will cost and arm and leg I will but I kinda like the up and down movement of the truck :-) Plus I pull trailers and it really helps to keep the truck level.

I talked to the ex Ford mechanic who did my brakes and he said he recalled some dry rotting on the front air bags don't know if that is the cause or not related. I also read here to spray soapy water on the fittings and I couldn't tell where the air lines ran under the hood but I recall they talked about a T fitting. I found a T fitting on the passenger side near the compressor towards the front of the engine and the rubber hose going down into it seemed not on it all the way and when I touched the hose I heard air leaking. I tried to push it on more and heard more leaking and I wiggled it until it stopped. I got some soapy water and put on that T fitting and I got soap bubbles out of 2 of the 3 connections. It seemed like a very slow leak but maybe that is enough to bottom out the front suspension after 8+ hours?
You may have found your whole problem at that leak. If it is an OEM fitting it will have "push in" type hoses and locks and if there is enough air hose at the side that leaks you could pull the hose and cut about 1/4" off and reinsert the hose. If it still leaks the fitting is likely bad and that is a dealer only part or maybe Rock Auto will have it. It would be a good idea to do the soapy water test on all of your air suspension components, springs and connections just to be sure all is well.
 
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Old Oct 12, 2012 | 11:46 AM
  #23  
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I was excited when I found the leak thinking I found the problem but Eddie said the air bags contain the air with solenoids/valves and the leak I found is unrelated. He said air hose leak will just slow down the inflation and that the bags settling is more related to an air bag leak. We will see...
 
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Old Oct 12, 2012 | 12:26 PM
  #24  
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by rowekmr
I was excited when I found the leak thinking I found the problem but Eddie said the air bags contain the air with solenoids/valves and the leak I found is unrelated. He said air hose leak will just slow down the inflation and that the bags settling is more related to an air bag leak. We will see...
Post a pic of the tee that is leaking. and again, do the soap test on all of the fittings and the bags.
My Navigator has a solenoid under the fan shroud in about the center of the crossmember and not easy to reach or see without getting up close and personal with it. It seems that the air for both of my fronts are held in check or allowed in or out at that solenoid. I would also suggest that you replace all of the O-rings in the solenoids and fittings just to insure they will not leak for some time to come.
 
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Old Oct 29, 2012 | 08:52 AM
  #25  
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I have been busy driving a Honda I just bought for my son while I sort out this issue so sorry haven't took that pic yet but will do.
I have heard that there are O rings on top of the bags that go bad but didn't know about those you mentioned at the solenoids or fittings. I will try to get close and personal to sort this issue out or else I will have to take to dealership to diagnose. What I can tell now is that although the pump doesn't initially pump up the fronts when they are all the way down (bumpstops) if I drive it for around 15-20 minutes the pump comes back on and inflates them. I wonder if the pump shuts down after awhile when it gets hot or too much pressure? It will always run on initial start up but if it doesn't pump it up it shuts down afterwhile (while sounding like it is under heavy load) then later start ups it might not come on until that 15-20 minutes passes then it will come on and pump up the front end. Once it pumps up the whole truck I have shut it off 3-5 times and watched it lower at shut off and raise back up at start up. The front dropping occurs 15+ hours when warm and less than 9 hours when it is cold outside.

Thanks for your assistance thus far.


Originally Posted by Moto Mel
Post a pic of the tee that is leaking. and again, do the soap test on all of the fittings and the bags.
My Navigator has a solenoid under the fan shroud in about the center of the crossmember and not easy to reach or see without getting up close and personal with it. It seems that the air for both of my fronts are held in check or allowed in or out at that solenoid. I would also suggest that you replace all of the O-rings in the solenoids and fittings just to insure they will not leak for some time to come.
 
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Old Oct 30, 2012 | 03:28 PM
  #26  
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If you can get to a Pick-N-Pull type of salvage yard, I suggest that you pull a solenoid from a rear bag and look inside , you should see 2 or 3 o-rings that are replaceable and available from a dealer. If you have air escaping at a connection where the air hose pushes into and locks you may have to replace that part or you might be able to cut an 1/8th to 1/4" off then hose and reinsert it with good results.
From your description of the way your compressor operates I think you will need to replace it soon with a reman from Eddie or ? There is a soldered in circut breaker at the pump motor that eventually loses it's ability to function and then the compressor will no longer come on. Usually at the worst possible moment. You would be wise to just replace the compressor with a reman from Eddie with a fresh drier and get the warrantee fom him. I've never had a problem in dealing with him, unlike the experience my son had with Strut Masters a few years ago.
 
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Old Jan 2, 2013 | 04:29 PM
  #27  
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Finally the pump bit the dust. It got noisier and noisier and wouldn't lift the suspension so the front and rear both bottomed out and I took it to Lincoln where they said the compressor was bad (duh) and both height sensors were bad with one being frozen and the other moving but having spots where it hangs up. He didn't hear any hissing from the bags nor see any bubbles but said the pump only would get 30 psi. I will replace all 3 then see how the rest of the system is operating.
 
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Old Apr 21, 2013 | 04:03 PM
  #28  
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Even though the episode is all over I want to give an update for anyone that might be in a similar problem.

After the compressor and height sensors replaced I still had problem. They switched out the solenoids for free and that didn't cure it. Spent many hours searching online and found a post by one Ford tech on a forum that says after changing many bags he still finds leak in the upper mount. I forgot the name of the component but I did print out the thread and gave it to the GM of the dealership and the tech replaced both of them and that was the cause all along. It is where the air spring meets the suspension and I think there is also an O ring there. That leaking caused the compressor to go which sent shrapnel into the airbags which caused the solenoids problem. All in all I spent almost 2/3 of the price of the truck on the air suspension and looking at all the other electronic gizmos that could fail I sold it (in working condition). Until I can fix some of the problems in a car I can't afford a Lincoln!

If the relays are good, bags don't leak, and the lines are good this mount can be the source. The tech said it is temperature dependent because there is metal, rubber and Orings which in time develop wear and space for leaks.
 
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