351 vs. 460
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: southwest michigan
I will say, you are right that the E4OD isn't exactly the greatest shifting transmission... but I'm very surprised that anyone would find a 302 better suited to a 3/4 ton than a 351. 69Mach1scj, Was the 302 truck the same year as the 351's? what were the gear ratios in those trucks?
This is merely my own hypothesis, but I think the reason a 351 doesn't "feel" as powerful, is because the power comes on early, and the poor flow the of E7 heads is exacerbated by the larger volume of air needed in a 351 for a given RPM so that you get less HP increase as your RPMs rise, as you might otherwise get with a 302. You get a very flat torque curve, but you don't get a noticeable increase in power as the RPMs climb. Once again, just my best guess.
I'd like to see two equally laden trucks (5k lb - 10k lb trailer or so), one with each smallblock windsor, and let em do a 1/4 mile run. I just can image an extra 40-50 ft/lbs of torque being a bad thing.
This is merely my own hypothesis, but I think the reason a 351 doesn't "feel" as powerful, is because the power comes on early, and the poor flow the of E7 heads is exacerbated by the larger volume of air needed in a 351 for a given RPM so that you get less HP increase as your RPMs rise, as you might otherwise get with a 302. You get a very flat torque curve, but you don't get a noticeable increase in power as the RPMs climb. Once again, just my best guess.
I'd like to see two equally laden trucks (5k lb - 10k lb trailer or so), one with each smallblock windsor, and let em do a 1/4 mile run. I just can image an extra 40-50 ft/lbs of torque being a bad thing.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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From: oo-tah
FWIW, the main reason I bought my previous F250 with a 351 was because I really just wanted a half ton 5 speed that wasn't the M5OD, especially since I had owned a half ton before that with that tranny and had blown it up. Since that was never a factory option, I stepped to a F250. F250s with the 351 are cheaper, but still gave me everything I needed out of a truck (Home Depot runs and the occasional UHaul trailer).
Mike
Mike
and I can't see a 5.0 beating a 5.8, my 5.0 was a champ even at 198k but it struggled with a load and was a dog off a light even with 3.73s and 31s. now when bucky in daddys cummins came along to pipe me doing 60... Well they'd blow smoke, but it was behind me! The 5.0 just doesn't have the low end for a truck it seems. My brothers bronco had a tired 5.8 turning 33s and it'd keep with my truck without being so busy. but it doesn't sound like it does as well in the bigger truck... I didn't think it would be so different.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
Well I'm not surprised, that is one badly smothered motor right there. For the love of gawd get a cam in that thing now.. right now if not sooner, you're completely missing out on one of the best truck motors ever built. Yes.. that's how much difference a cam change makes.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,635
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From: Lansdale, PA
Oh I'm right there with you on cam swap.
I have a ton more to go on as well. I don't remember if it was this thread or another I listed a bunch of stuff.
I'm gonna do mass air swap first. It's easier to use a stock engine in good running condition to do major wiring on. After that... It's no holds barred.
I have a ton more to go on as well. I don't remember if it was this thread or another I listed a bunch of stuff.
I'm gonna do mass air swap first. It's easier to use a stock engine in good running condition to do major wiring on. After that... It's no holds barred.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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From: oo-tah
I'd love a yj, would've bought one if they had enough space. my problem is that I have a wj. read all sorts of good things about em before I bought it, they tow well, ride nice, do well off road and can do great with a lift and tires. It squats with any load, the tow rating is counting an equalizer hitch. It does ride nice, but that is absolute bottom of my priorities list. Does well off road? Flex the suspension and it pulls apart the rad. Tank from the radiator, which is more complicated to fix than doing all the ball joints on my ford. Its not worth investing more time or money into. As soon as I can its gone, with a ford truck or bronco in the driveway. Sorry for the rant, I really hate that I traded in my ford for that.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Colorado Springs CO
I've owned both. I drive a 460, and would NOT go back to the 351.
I live at 6000 ft. elevation, where you're giving up 30% of your power right off the bat, and go up from there when towing. The 351 was just a turd compared to the 460.
I live at 6000 ft. elevation, where you're giving up 30% of your power right off the bat, and go up from there when towing. The 351 was just a turd compared to the 460.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Freehold
Depends on the gears in my opinion. Used to have a HD 95 F250 with 4.10s. Was it a powerhouse, no. But it did make great power and pulled anything I asked (including a car trailer more than a few times). It got about 12mpg in town and 15 hwy.
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2011
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From: Pueblo, CO
Seeing as how you originally set out looking for an F150, I think a 351/Zf5/3.55 might be a good setup for you in an F250 or F350. I really doubt you'll be disappointed in any truck and long as it's got at least a 351 in it.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Greenville, NC
Depends on your use. If you are pulling a 5 ton trailer day in and day out, then yes you probably want a 460. If, on the other hand, you just want a stronger truck than a 1/2 ton, and won't be towing all the time, then a 351 will do just fine. I'm perfectly satisfied with mine, it gets the job I need done, and it gets 10-20% better fuel economy than a 460 while doing it.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Poway, CA
Mike