Expert advice needed!
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 21
From: Oklahoma
Expert advice needed!
I am posting this for my brother - 05 F-350 6.0L FX4 CC 100k-ish....
The truck starts and runs great 99% of the time. FICM and HPO numbers look good on the scan gauge. We had to replace the injectors a couples of months back and was hoping with all we did this issue would have been resolved.
All it takes to get it started it a shot of ether. I know its bad juju, but it works. Just as soon as the ether hits and the motor cranks faster, it lights off, otherwise he can crank till the batteries are low...
Could this be a weak fuel pump?
Here is the work we did-
The truck starts and runs great 99% of the time. FICM and HPO numbers look good on the scan gauge. We had to replace the injectors a couples of months back and was hoping with all we did this issue would have been resolved.
All it takes to get it started it a shot of ether. I know its bad juju, but it works. Just as soon as the ether hits and the motor cranks faster, it lights off, otherwise he can crank till the batteries are low...
Could this be a weak fuel pump?
Here is the work we did-
- 8- Ford Reman Injectors
- Injector Harness
- 8 - Glow Plugs
- Glow plug harnesses
- Stand Pipes
- Dummy Plugs
- STC Fitting
- EGR Delete - Plugged/welded factory coolder
- Blue spring upgrade
- New Motorcraft batteries
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2012
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What is the HPOP reading while cranking? Reason I ask is that the HPOP needs 500 psi to allow the engine to start, and that may be hard to get on cranking rpm's. When you put the ether in, the engine is running but it's not running on the computer, it's running on the ether only - but the higher rpms may get the HPOP up high enough that the computer lets it start injecting fuel and keep running.
You should get the fuel pressure read. The engine will start with almost no fuel pressure, but it will kill injectors fast. I was once changing the fuel filters, and got distracted. I cranked and started the engine before I finished screwing down the secondary filter cover. Gauge read about 5 psi, engine started and ran fine for the five seconds it took me to realize what I'd done. The engine compartment sparkled after I finished cleaning up the half gallon of diesel that got sprayed over it... Yes, I felt like a doofus...
Brian
You should get the fuel pressure read. The engine will start with almost no fuel pressure, but it will kill injectors fast. I was once changing the fuel filters, and got distracted. I cranked and started the engine before I finished screwing down the secondary filter cover. Gauge read about 5 psi, engine started and ran fine for the five seconds it took me to realize what I'd done. The engine compartment sparkled after I finished cleaning up the half gallon of diesel that got sprayed over it... Yes, I felt like a doofus...
Brian
Thread Starter
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 21
From: Oklahoma
What is the HPOP reading while cranking? Reason I ask is that the HPOP needs 500 psi to allow the engine to start, and that may be hard to get on cranking rpm's. When you put the ether in, the engine is running but it's not running on the computer, it's running on the ether only - but the higher rpms may get the HPOP up high enough that the computer lets it start injecting fuel and keep running.
You should get the fuel pressure read. The engine will start with almost no fuel pressure, but it will kill injectors fast. I was once changing the fuel filters, and got distracted. I cranked and started the engine before I finished screwing down the secondary filter cover. Gauge read about 5 psi, engine started and ran fine for the five seconds it took me to realize what I'd done. The engine compartment sparkled after I finished cleaning up the half gallon of diesel that got sprayed over it... Yes, I felt like a doofus...
Brian
You should get the fuel pressure read. The engine will start with almost no fuel pressure, but it will kill injectors fast. I was once changing the fuel filters, and got distracted. I cranked and started the engine before I finished screwing down the secondary filter cover. Gauge read about 5 psi, engine started and ran fine for the five seconds it took me to realize what I'd done. The engine compartment sparkled after I finished cleaning up the half gallon of diesel that got sprayed over it... Yes, I felt like a doofus...
Brian
I agree, we need to see what the fuel pressure actually is. You would think the blue spring would have resolved this if it was pressure related but anything is possible.
It puzzles me because this is so intermittent.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
The PCM requires minimum cranking RPM's as well as a certain HPO pressure before it will allow the engine to start. You could have a small HPO leak (or doubtfully a weak pump) OR weak batteries and a voltage problem. Check the fuel pressure, as well, but I don't think that's your starting problem as it's not affected by cranking RPM's but it IS affected by weak batteries.
Any codes?
Any codes?
Thread Starter
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 21
From: Oklahoma
The PCM requires minimum cranking RPM's as well as a certain HPO pressure before it will allow the engine to start. You could have a small HPO leak (or doubtfully a weak pump) OR weak batteries and a voltage problem. Check the fuel pressure, as well, but I don't think that's your starting problem as it's not affected by cranking RPM's but it IS affected by weak batteries.
Any codes?
Any codes?
Also no codes, but we are only relying on a SG... I keep telling my brother we need to go in halves on an AE!!
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
IIRC it takes 180 cranking RPM's but I'm not sure SGII will register that. AFA the SGII reading codes on the 05 and up trucks it does a MUCH better job than on the 03 and 4 trucks because of a better PCM.
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
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From: Oklahoma
I can't think of anything else that could be leaking other than the ICP??? Since we've replaced everything else, unless Im missing something.... This issue was occurring before we did all the work, so obviously we didn't touch what is causing the issue...
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Posting Guru
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FWIW and in the interests of science, I just went out and started my truck with the SG2 on, monitoring ICP. The truck hadn't run in 24 hours. ICP key on, engine off, before I cranked, was 112 psi residual pressure. As soon as the engine cranked ICP went to around 950, engine started, stayed at 950-ish until I turned it off (5 seconds or so). All you do is press the lower button on the SG2 to turn it on, and watch while you crank to start the engine normally. Try that and see what you get. The SG2 will turn off again fairly quickly when the key is off, but it stays on for 10 seconds or so, long enough to crank the engine. Also, my normal warm idle ICP is 580, going up to 680 or so idle in gear.
Brian
Brian
Thread Starter
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 21
From: Oklahoma
FWIW and in the interests of science, I just went out and started my truck with the SG2 on, monitoring ICP. The truck hadn't run in 24 hours. ICP key on, engine off, before I cranked, was 112 psi residual pressure. As soon as the engine cranked ICP went to around 950, engine started, stayed at 950-ish until I turned it off (5 seconds or so). All you do is press the lower button on the SG2 to turn it on, and watch while you crank to start the engine normally. Try that and see what you get. The SG2 will turn off again fairly quickly when the key is off, but it stays on for 10 seconds or so, long enough to crank the engine. Also, my normal warm idle ICP is 580, going up to 680 or so idle in gear.
Brian
Brian
Thanks
Thread Starter
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 21
From: Oklahoma
My brother checked the ICP and RPMs while cranking, ICP was 900+ psi and RPMs were 650+.... The truck did start just fine and has since I posted this thread. I will update the next time it acts up...
Thread Starter
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 21
From: Oklahoma
My brother pulled his fuel pump off to take a look at it. I thought I would share what he found....
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Portal, AZ
My brother pulled his fuel pump off to take a look at it. I thought I would share what he found....
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - Shaneb75's Album: Misc
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - Shaneb75's Album: Misc
Thread Starter
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Strokin Okie
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 21
From: Oklahoma
He cleaned it all out, but decided to just buy a new one. Knowing him its already installed... lol
That is the water separator area. The plug was nearly rusted off. The second cavity had some gel looking crap in there. He said that when he pulled the filter that there was some of that red crap that settled at the bottom of it as well.
He's owned this truck less than a year, so this is not his neglect....
That is the water separator area. The plug was nearly rusted off. The second cavity had some gel looking crap in there. He said that when he pulled the filter that there was some of that red crap that settled at the bottom of it as well.
He's owned this truck less than a year, so this is not his neglect....