I have a question that I have been wondering about. Radiator Coolant, what to use, how to use it, and how much to use it.

I just looked in my radiator on my Bronco and it is all mucky and rusty, I tried flushing it out with a water hose the best I could.

I usually just put in tap water with like a gallon of 50/50 or full strength anti-freeze, BUT I am beginning to wonder and I saw on the 50/50 that I shouldn't add water.


Well I just replaced my water pump and flushed out the system with a water hose the best I could and I used two gallon (2) of 50/50 and I think I need some more. Do I go get some more 50/50 or can I use distilled water now (saw people say using distill water is best)? Or do I keep adding 50/50 Antifreeze/coolant when the system gets low?


Thanks in advance.

 

I wouldn't ever use tap water unless it's absolutely necessary. As with filling it, I would get more 50/50 to fill it up whenever you need to. Distilled water would be cheaper to use, and much better than tap, but if you are using the 50/50 mix, then adding more water in the system dilutes the antifreeze more than it's supposed to be.

You would probably be fine topping off with distilled water when the fluid get low, but just remember that it's diluting the antifreeze more each time you do so adding the 50/50 mix is probably the safest bet.

With an old ford we used to have, we would always fill it up with tap water, and when I first got my truck I did the same thing. The thing is with that, there is so much junk in the tap water it corrodes the system much faster and there is a lot of scale build up. You might not necessarily destroy a piece due to the corrosion or scale build up, but it restricts the flow of the coolant significantly over time and is a severe pain to clean. The inside of the old F-150s cooling system was really gross and rusty because of the tap and my Bronco still has some buildup in there from it.

Distilled water shouldn't have all the impurities of tap water that can corrode the metals inside your cooling system, but I still prefer to get the 50/50 now just because I don't want to dilute my coolant too much.

 

I use straight Prestone plus distilled water. One gallon Prestone one gallon water untill topped off. Then run engine and add more as needed untill full. It's the same as 50/50.

 

Nothing but Evans in anything older than 1999 that I own. (Anything newer is still under warranty and hasn't been swapped over yet.) I spend more for it. I do NOT have corrosion issues and the systems operate at considerably LOWER pressures. (Like run-with-the-cap-off-and-still-protected pressures). Some folks will claim it allows higher operating temps and could shorten component life. I've idled in stop-n-go traffic for two-plus hours and never been over 215º F with the A/C cycling. There are also a LOT of collector car owners running it to prevent boil-overs and corrosion damage to old hard-to-find or obsolete parts. The fact that it is completely NON-toxic makes it a perfect choice if you have small children or pets around too.

 

Evans sounds pretty good. I've seen you talk about it in another post Grey, where exactly do you get it? Is it something any autoparts store would carry, and would you need to completely drain your coolant and let it try off before adding evans? I've been meaning to flush my system out soon and replace the hoses, MAYBE replace my water pump gasket because I believe I may have added to much RTV gasket maker.. but if Evans is that much better it sounds like a good switch. I have plenty of dogs and cats so non toxic is a plus.

 

I'm also interested in some more info on the "Evans" product.

I went to the web site link and did some "goggling" on it but still didn't get much information. What is the difference made in using this product, the availbility (live in north Florida) and what is necessary to do if you change over to it?

After spending a bunch of money on overheating problems I'm enjoying seeing that needle stay on the left of "normal" and no higher than the "o"!

 

Have a look at their website folks. You can only purchase through them but you can buy online through the site. Evans recommends a complete flush of old coolant since the point is to remove all the water (corrosive element) from the system. They give detailed information as to how to properly drain your system and as long as the system does not leak, you won't be plagued by "pressure leaks" because the fluid does not ever boil.

 

IMHO, scrap all the PR publicity, marketing and lets get back to basic chemistry....

1. Nothing substitutes a periodic flush of the radiator & only use ethylene-gylcol based coolant & distilled water.

2. When I drain the coolant, I place a doubled up paper towel over the funnel which filters to less than 3 microns (much better then any of the inline filters)- in terms of contaminants, the coolant is now as clean as when it came out of the original bottle. Provided it meets all the other test I do, it is reinstalled in the vehicle.

3. I have installed a magnesium anode in all overflows (same electrolysis protection used per code for all underground tanks)- Zinc anodes are available as well (JC Whitney, etc.) specifically for automotive applications and sell for about $6- they attract all the nasty stuff that destroys radiators, pumps, hoses etc and they become the sacrificial lamb- and keeps the ph of the fluid neutral. The inside of my cooling system and related components is spotless- literally!

4. I check the ph (using a swimming pool kit) - and check the alcohol content using a conventional coolant bulb type test device ($10 at any parts store)

the results.....

1. Contaminant production is eliminated by 90%+ as a result of the neutral ph maintenance

2. Contaminants that are produced are contained outside of the system flow, in the overflow at the anode. At this point I have less contaminant in my system than if I used an inline filter because we have eliminated 90% of the production and contained the residual.

3. With the paper towel, I can actually see the residual system contaminants (which you can typically count) and by most accounts visually know if a potential problem exist by the type and color of the products. The coolant is as clean as if I had opened a fresh container.

4. The system is clean and performance level known.

My personal results...

My father (an ol salt flats racer & aerospace engineer) starting this in the 1950's and typically the conventional coolant lasts 10-20 years in the vehicle before requiring replacement. Prestone did a test for longitivity on coolant long before the extended requirement came to be.....at 13 years they stopped the test because there was no degradation.

I cannot remember repairing a radiator or heat exchanger or water pump during my 50+ years on this earth on any of my family's vehicles- (I take that back, I replaced 2 water pumps on my 1990 F150 when due to a pulley tension/alignment problem it ate two bearings/seals, my fault as I didn't check it the 1st time, but at 80,000 miles I was not too surprised to see a leak from the water pump bearing).
We typically keep our vehicles for 10 to 15+ years. Our list of vehicles includes...

1959 221 CID V8 Ranchero (1965 to 1971)
1932 Flathead V8 Ford Coupe (1960 to present)
1965 Mustang (1965 to present)
1969 F100 (1972 to 1984)
1984 F150 (1984 to 2006) (400K+ miles w2 rebuilds)
1979 Honda (1982 to 1990)
1987 Toyota Celica GT (1987 to 1997)
1990 F150 (1990 to 2006)
1997 Cougar Sport (1990 to present)
2006 Mark LT (2006 to present)
2006 F150 4x4 (2006 to present)

IMHO, basic chemistry makes “gadgets” like inline filters just that, “gadgets” & if whatever this "secret" collant is that makes it sooo good, I guarantee NASA and others would have it in use!

 

Good information... but now I have another question.

Where does the anode go? Is it a part of the pressure cap or does it have to be installed in-line? As always - a picture would really help

 

It typically hangs from a chain or wire from the bottom of the radiator cap so that it is submersed in the coolant near the top of the radiator.

1. Wrong. Periodic flushes and refills cost money and time EVERY time. Waterless coolant is a LIFETIME coolant. As long as the system doesn't develop any leaks (which is less apt to happen because of the lower operating pressures) it will NEVER need replacement nor will the system corrode.

2. This step no longer necessary.

3. Another unnecessary and ADDITIONAL cost associated with coolant that causes corrosion. Remember that it must also be replaced periodically simply because it will reach a point that it cannot retain any further contaminants. This is true no matter which anode type is employed.

4. This step no longer necessary.

Resulting in the following:

1. No contaminants present due to a non-corrosive coolant. No pH maintenance necessary.

2. Again, no contaminants with a non-corrosive, non-toxic coolant.

3. No paper towel of any other filtration required, no maintenance needed, no need for periodic checks, flushes, refills.

4. Evans boils at 375º F and begins to become more viscous at -40º F with cap-off operating pressures. Protection level is readily apparent and you have spent ZERO time, money, energy maintaining the system.

I guess it depends on whether you want to spend all your time maintaining your cooling system or driving your vehicle. If waterless coolant is all PR and hype, why are the majority of OTR trucks, vehicle fleets around the world, and collector car investors and enthusiasts leaving ethylene glycol behind for this non-toxic, non-corrosive, money-saving system? (That's a rhetorical question. We all know the answer).

 

That stuff is expensive, but if it works as advertized it's a chemical wonder, my engine and future A/C would really benefit from lower temperatures in this tropical climate.

 

"It typically hangs from a chain or wire from the bottom of the radiator cap so that it is submersed in the coolant near the top of the radiator."

It can but doesn't have to and is typically considered risky doing so as the ring that hangs in the filler neck lightly compresses the rad cap spring which raises the rated PSI.....even by 1 lb, that can be "not a good thing". I have mine (anodes) submerged in the radiator overflows.

"Periodic flushes and refills cost money and time EVERY time. Waterless coolant is a LIFETIME coolant. As long as the system doesn't develop any leaks (which is less apt to happen because of the lower operating pressures) it will NEVER need replacement nor will the system corrode."

If you are so lazy & believe you do not need to periodically check your oil level, tire pressure, & buy all the other PR (such as your auto transmission fluid is good for 100,000 miles) then- ok, I'll buy that- of course no fleet service organization does.

Periodic flushes do not cost any $, except the water you run through the radiator & cooling system to flush out any "items, dirt, etc".....all coolant is retained & re-used provided it meets criteria....ok so maybe I spent $2. Also this allows you to "see" what has been produced into the cooling system...........otherwise you do not know & it is just building up or circulating look for a place to cause a restriction. ask any Licensed Civic Engineer who actually oversees maitenance systems such as cooling towers, etc......yes they have "life-time" coolants, etc, but they are still flushed.

"Another unnecessary and ADDITIONAL cost associated with coolant that causes corrosion. Remember that it must also be replaced (anode) periodically."

While this is true, my 1965 mustang (as an example) which had a ground up rebuild in 1987, still has the original installed anode......15 years, pretty cost effective....and my 2006 Mark LT, yes, just had to replace it after 6 years (obviously this "engineer from Evans has no practical experience with anodes...the ones that protect underground fuel tanks for example last for 20+ years, & many of the old school radiator mfg's that produce aluminum units actually include a anode built into the radiator- so much for the Evans marketing material- physics again, damn!)...yeah, the one with the sealed system, lifetime coolant (100,000 mile), bla, bla bla......The PH of the oem coolant- 7.3 (almost perfect), I followed it for 6 months, in which the ph went to 7.6, within 6 months of installing the anode, it was at 7.1- perfect ph.....if you speak with anyone in either facility or automove radiator cooling systems and ask them specifically what a .3 change in ph does to aluminum tubes, this reduces their life by as much as 25%.......BTW, there were no leaks on the system as certified by Ford at the 6 month & 1 year marks.

Now for the anode in the Mark LT, it took the anode 6 years to go away which also implies the "sealed system" isn't so clean (as compared to the "dirty" 65 Mustang.....yeah, that was a waste of $ too......oh but all my hoses, radiator etc are spotless...when it went in for a recall last year, the MSE's (2) wanted to know......

Where did you get the rear sway bar- (I built it)
Where did you get the ram air system- that actually looks like it would work & (I built it)
This is the one of the few trucks we've seen that isn't getting due for radiator hoses...typically we start seeing small signs of deteriation (- the anode)
Oh, we notice that, you made that too (yeah)

But here is a tried & true example of a non ethylene gylcol based cool failure...Peak. Peak was introduced as an environmentally friendly coolant (extended drain intervals, etc.) back in the mid 80's......GM began using it in their Olds....guess what, within 6 months Olds was experiencing high warranty repairs for overhetaing engines due to obstructed cooling passages- the engineers went to work and discovered the blockage was from particulates from the cooling system hoses......further analysis revealed the hoses were in essence dissentigrating from the inside, cause by Peak" coolant....a chemical reaction was occurring. A service bulletin was issued immedatley advising to replace "Peak" with conventional coolant.

Now, with a backround (very strong) in the aviation & space arena, there are coolants that are used that are alcohol-free, but, waterless coolant- is not seen anywhere (unless you want to go into ammonia & nitrogen areas)

but for yur last statement.........

"Why are the majority of OTR trucks, vehicle fleets around the world, and collector car investors and enthusiasts leaving ethylene glycol behind for this non-toxic, non-corrosive, money-saving system?"

They aren't.......

Prestone would be "Out of Business"

and those that are, well, that's what I call the "Apple Mentality Crwod"- regardless of what science & laws of physics exists, they will go for a product based solely on a brochure.......

like I said, if it was soo great, why isn't every GOCO & COCO (Government owned company operated or government owned government operated) facility in the world (such as the NASA, russian, french & US military) using this critically important product................each does long term cost/benfit analysis & failure anlysis of every nut & bolt and its affects in a maintenance program......seems to be working somehow, someway......
could it be ......................science!

 

It could be a lot of things... I could be the fact that we still burn fossil fuels and pay through the nose for them when there are cleaner more efficient means of powering our vehicles but we just keep doing it because we are too stubborn or obtuse to accept that NEW science works BETTER than the old science. We have built on the old knowledge and continue to improve exponentially at least insofar as close-minded people are willing to let us. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. At the moment, its people with the "I'll stand still because I don't want to learn anything new or accept that someone else has a better idea" attitude that are the people who keep us from being the innovators and creators that we could be. I'll agree to disagree here and let those who read this make their own decision. The facts are the facts. (By the way, when was the last time any government agency gave a damn how much of OUR money they spend? If that that argument not only irrelevant but hysterical).

 

Ya know that is the same basic argument that K&N provided for years, until Testland Corporation (an ISO certified lab) tested their product claims- they failed in every single aspect.

You seem to part of the same- put this sticker on your car, it will give you more HP!!!!!

Prove your claim through the same scientific standards that ASTM, ASME uses or put your PR crap back in the closet!

 

Now you are pushing it. Back off! I'm entitled to post and express my opinion just as much as you are. So either back off or learn why we don't put up with your kind of crap!