In middle school I was "the cream of the crop" according to teachers. I outscored 97% of the country in my grade level on the SAT test (different from the Stanford Achievement but same premise, just given to younger age groups). I started moving around more after my parents seperated and I started to question what the important things in life were. I spent less time in the books and started hanging out with friends and fishing a lot. I spent more time enjoying the outdoors trying to get "in touch with nature" because I started to think perhaps I would regret not doing so when i got older. Now in high school my GPA is no longer a 4.0 but hovers around 3.2. This is not because I'm not smart enough, but rather lack the ambition to do the work. It is uninteresting and not pertinent to anything in life. I for one believe you should not be taught to recite answers, but taught to apply them. For example trigonometry should be taught on a basis of engineering or physics, not "abstract" as my teacher put it. But he is teaching it to us this way because it is ultimately the way our "higher education" math classes will be taught and it infuriates me.

How this all began is I purchased a copy of Discover magazine, a publication based on science and engineering, to read at my lame job (which I'm abusing to type this now) and I began to once again be intrigued by science and learning in general. This is not to say I've lain dormant for the past several years. I watch the History channel every night before bed, and if I ever watch anything it's either the History channel or Discovery, and the like.

For the first time since middle school things are starting to perplex me, and I'm beginning to think are beyond me (but I will never believe that because my ego won't let me, lol) These are things such as String theory, Black holes, the fourth dimmension etc. etc.

I was wondering if any of you out there, Greywolf especially because he seems knowledgeable on most things and would only add credence (hope I used that word right) to my prior post if he did. When it comes to knowledge I hate to sound stupid around anyone, I try not to open my mouth when I really don't know what I'm talking about, but I like to be able to join in all kinds of conversations, and debunk everyone's theory I'm just some dumb redneck who drives a big green truck.

I appologize for such a long post, but it was on my mind and the fact I was bored, I'm sure, only compounded the length.

 

Since I was in second grade, I always blew those tests away, and it was widely accepted that I was one of the top handful of people intelligence wise in any school I attended. Everyone expected I would become a great scientist or engineer, as I've always held a fascination with the aerospace industry. But after elementary, while still bent on learning as much as I could (I too, to this day, watch The History Channel, The Discovery Channel, and The Learning Channel more than any others, go to libraries, and research on the web, just for the chance to learn more), I found my grades slipping. They continued to slip to the point that I, this supposed "great genius", graduated with a 2.018 Cummulative HS GPA. What was wrong? I did very little homework. I would get 97-100% on all the tests, and then do just enough homework to get by. The day before I graduated, one of my history teachers said to me, "Royce, you are the only person whom I have ever met that could take Advanced Nuclear Physics 401 and Remedial 2nd Grade Math tomorrow and get a 'D' in both."
I see in you possibly the same problem I had. I despised the way education was set up, and so I struggled.
Now, this "great genius" is a 20 year old 2-time college drop-out, making $8.70 an hour. I too like the out-doors and feel that the "important" things have nothing to do with formal education. Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't agree.
I have sinced realized that there are two very different kinds of "brainy" people. The first, of which you and I are, and probably 5% of the "brainy" people, is smart. We are the best with tests, thinking on our feet, and efficiently finding effective solutions to problems. Both times I went to college, I didn't see many of these kind of people. The second kind is intelligent. These are the other 95% of the "brainy" folks. They can recite figures and other data much more effectively than us, and have the patience for school.
Thake these two examples. One is me, the other is a guy I was in high school with. I am the "smart" one, he is the "intelligent" one. I am 20, my educaction ends with a HS Diploma, I am a delivery driver making $8.70 an hour. He is 22, a graduate of a very esteemed engineering college in California, he's had a guaranteed position waiting for him in Microsoft since the middle of his collge career. He works for them now, making around 100,000 a year writing code. He just paid cash for a Porsche. Few who know both him and I well will dispute that I am the smarter, but the system is designed so that intelligent folks will excell, as there are many more of them.
Now I'm not blaming the system for my position in life, as it's my own darn fault I didn't do my homework and pull a 3.9 or better, but I recognize where some very smart people will be left behind and they all, including you, need to realize that and play the game.

The Law
1989 F-250 HD 4x4
460, C6, BW 13-56, Sterling 10.25" (4.10:1), Dana 44 HD (4.09:1), twin K&N's, no muffler, stock lo-flo cat, Bosch Platinum Plugs (0.060") MSD 6A and TFI Blaster Coil

 

I'm beginning to play the game and plan to retake the sat's and acquire a better score. I got an 1150 the first time which is admirable according to my peers, but I know I'm capable of better. The conditions I took them under weren't great and I didn't finish most of the english sections because i analyzed the questions too much and ran out of time, but scored high regardless. I figure if i can get between 12 and 1300 like i did on the practice sat's (which i scored in the 90 percentile on an experimental part of, go figure) i'll be able to get into a good university just on those credentials. I really want to move back down to Florida, and UF has a school of engineering I'm considering, has anyone heard or been there?

 

The educational system in our country sucks. Many of the classes that took in high school were taught just focusing on the final exam. I live in New York State where we have state exams for certain courses that you must pass to get a regents diploma. They've changed the guidelines around in hopes of setting higher standards but actually doing the opposite. Last spring was the first time a new Physics Regents Exam was given and even some of the smartest kids in my high school (lots of smart kids at that school, even w/o the over-inflated grades) failed the exam.

To put it in perspective, compare our country's educational system to others like Japan. There's a big difference. And the liberals think all the problems will go away if we just throw more money at it. This makes me sick I have a feeling my kids will be homeschooled.

 

Guys, what's important is being happy, having enough and enjoying life. It's not important what your piers think, how much money you make, how high your sat's are and the rest of that rat race societal bullcrap. You should decide for yourself what makes you happy and go for it, whether it be a hunting guide in Colorado working part time or an executive engineer working for Microsoft. It's your life, it's short and to spend a good portion of it wasting time doing something you're not happy with to make money is not the way. Money won't make you happy. If you're lucky enough to end up doing what you love for a living then the money won't matter because this in itself will make you rich. Set your goals, make a plan and stick to it. If college is required to accomplish your goal then the sat's are important and by all means give it your best. Be consistent and persistent.....and don't forget what's really important!

 

Let it be known that I never said you had to have a degree to be smart, but I'd love to work in engineering. I find physics fascinating, that basically every type of movement in the world can be calculated by numbers baffles me for some reason, and I love to construct things and I love a good challenge as well. I guess I'm in luck because it pays well too if you're good, and when i put my mind to things I'm usually pretty close to the best if I want it bad enough. I'd really love to drive a semi for a living but I imagine it would get old and I don't want to hate my favorite thing to do.........drive......and I'd like a little better pay if possible.

 

 

Sounds like the same problem I had in school. I did great untill 7th or 8th grade then I got bored. It seemed like the same stuff day in and day out all through 12th. I managed to slide through not doing any homework but aced all the tests. According to the ASVAB (armed services vocational apptitude battery) I am a genius. They said I could have any MOS that I wanted. I have had numerous no-where jobs. I now sell industrial cutting tools & abrasives for a living. Real boring but the pay is good. I still watch TLC, Discovery, & The History channel and try to better myself through knowledge. In my opinion the school systems need to make some changes to keep our kids interested. My daughter is in 3rd grade this year and tells me its boring. I tell her constantly to learn what their teaching and pass the tests because thats what you need to do in todays society. If you want a decent career you have to play the game. Unfortunatley there is no hard & fast answer to fixing this.

 

>Let it be known that I never said you had to have a degree
>to be smart, but I'd love to work in engineering. I find
>physics fascinating, that basically every type of movement
>in the world can be calculated by numbers baffles me for
>some reason, and I love to construct things and I love a
>good challenge as well. I guess I'm in luck because it pays
>well too if you're good, and when i put my mind to things
>I'm usually pretty close to the best if I want it bad
>enough. I'd really love to drive a semi for a living but I
>imagine it would get old and I don't want to hate my
>favorite thing to do.........drive......and I'd like a
>little better pay if possible.

Only to a certain extent. Chaos theories...??! Remember, a simulation, in order to be 100% perfect, must be as complete and complex as what is being simulated. Consider how many billions of sub-atomic particles exist in a grain of sand!

As to the truck driving.... its not as romantic as some make it seem. Trucks beat you up fast, especially on concrete roads and northern roads. I know several truckers and according to them, life on the road gets old really fast. If you love driving, build some great Fords as a hobby. A Shelby replica would be cool!

Phyics never really fascinated me... I'm a numbers person and I love programming computers. Been doing it since the age of nine when I taught myself assembly language. Assembly language is really cool. Nothing quite like having the machine do exactly what you tell it to do or the fun of squeezing out 10% more speed from a function! These days I'm mainly doing PHP and C++, with a little Java.

 

My opinion is its never too late to learn again..

I taught economics at a local university part time a few years ago and my best students were the older ones who were coming back and upgrading..they took their studies seriuosly and really added a lot to the class. The stories they told of the working world really opened up the eyes of the freshmen.

I remember an older lady in my class telling a story about working in the fifties and being told as soon as she got married she would have to resign - what a reaction from the younger gals..they couldn't believe this was happening not all that long ago.

One of my best students was a guy who drove a garbage truck and brought it to class every night - which raised a few eyebrows. I really enjoyed spending some extra time with him because he was really eager to learn. He certainly gave back to the class too..he opened a few young eyes on the reality of life, and wasn't afraid to challenge the teacher either - his experience with "economic theory" was worth going to class alone. He graduated and apparently is doing quite well.

The universities and colleges IMO could use more people with real world experience in the schools - their experience and "acquired education" really adds something to the education system. A win/win if I ever saw one.

just my .02

 

I'm going to ramble a bit, but hopefully something I say will help. I flunked Algebra my first two times in High School (second was summer school). The third time they gave me a "D" just to get rid of me. In 11th grade I skipped more classes than I attended. My whole three years at high school were a total waste. But I pulled out of it. When I finally wanted to do algebra I got an "A" and went on to get "A"s in Trig and Calculus too (forgot most of it by now though). I went to community college and eventually transferred to a university and got a BS and MS (the MS 18 years after graduating high school). Now that does not mean all that much, but that I was able to play the game and give the profs what they wanted, but it did show some ability and it helped me net a decent job. (One community college basic computing course had the teacher just repeating the book for lectures so I did calculus homework in class, read the book, and aced the class.) One thing I had going for me was that ever since I could read I always was reading something, frequently non-fiction. I work with a guy who is an expert on freshwater bivalve mollusks (clams, that is). Did he learn this at school--no! He learned it on his own by studying books and mucking around in rivers and creeks because he wanted to, just for the fun of it. The point being that the key to learning is a desire to learn. The problem with most schools is they are only equiped to do mass education, assembly line style. It is not easy in that environment to instill a love of learning in young people. Always ask questions and then seek answers. If you read widely you will find many answers and many more unanswered questions, but it will keep you going, it will stimulate your brain and help you become a better thinker. Do this till you die and I think you are less likely to become senile when you are old (use it or lose it). As for school, do what is necessary to get a job. Other than something like medical school (where we would not be eager to have self teaching), the college degree often is just a screen for prospective employeers to narrow down the number of applicants and ensure they get somebody who can do something.

INLINE SIX POWER! '95 F150 XL
300 Cubic Inches of Low RPM Truck Torque! And twin-I-beams too!
"Drive a stick young man! There'll be time for automatics when you're old and unable."

 

I'm not exactly certain what the definition of "JACK" is, but I never learned it in public school that's for sure...

[font color=blue](and you can quote me)[/font]


I found school boring, mostly. The one advantage in colleges I found (being a 2 time drop out) was that I could pick and choose the subjects I wanted. Unfortunately - the instructors are generally a huge gamble.

Public schools tended to operate on the "Shotgun" theorem when I went through them ~
IE: Throw everything at the students; and hope some of it applies to something later on, if they remember any...

I learned to write well by reading good books (I thought they were anyway) not by what was pushed at me in class. I have no clue what the heck a preposition may be, but I know where I can look one up if I wanted to...

And like AOGDEN said above - I went to the Military Entrance Processing Station to take the ASVAB exam with the worst whiskey hangover I've ever suffered in my life, and they wanted me to become a nuclear technician! I'm glad I was too old for it. It seems they were only considering people under twenty five.

The one algebra (or "All Gibberish" for those familiar with it) class I took at a community college I passed with an 'A' a few days ahead of the rest of the class. I was interested in it...

Unfortunately I had life issues at the time, including basic transportation. So that was about it for serious school.

I tend to believe that it's only worthwhile to persue knowlege that will be used (immediately if possible) because things we are not interested in or don't practice, tend to fade away quickly as if they never were learned in the first place. The exceptions are few.

I was always curious about electronics - Gee, guess what I do for a living? I got into that in the military because there were no openings for mechanics (first choice) and when they offered it to me I thought; "I'm going to need that, the way cars and trucks have been going..."

In retrospect, I have only retained the bits and pieces of topics that personally fascinated me in some way. Typically subjects that had to do with creating, building, or repairing things. Uses of tools, auto mechanics, science, some math, and sketching skills (from art classes partly, but mostly from self study).

So my pattern is definately directed by three things:

1) Interest in the subject. Am I attracted to it?
2) Necessity. Is it something I need for what I want to do?
3) Circumstances conducive to learning. Do I have the time and surroundings to focus on it?

It seems to me that people attending colleges (even though they may be working a second job) are normally focused entirely on going to classes. Those who attend classes while following a career usually do so at night, or when time is allowed by their daytime jobs.

The one option available for my type of personality seems to be CLEP exams- where the individual studies on hers or his own, or gets the info from real life experiences, and then takes an examination to see if they have the knowlege. This is one of several avenues open to those of us who are allergic to school houses.

But then, I don't really care for a collection of pieces of paper that tell the world I spent the best years of my life on a campus somewhere. It ain't my thang!

I persue the things I've got to know in order to do what I have to or want to right now, today. Now, that may mean I won't get a blue collar job -

But from what I've heard, it's over rated.

~Just my http://greywolf.clubfte.com/2cents.gif

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-Oct-02 AT 06:12 PM (EST)]It's not the greatest, but what educational system is? With the exceptions of mathmatics and history, we're being taught stuff that is already 5 years outdated by the time we graduate with a degree. The world as a society is moving faster than ever before.

In the past century we as human beings have witnessed more change in our world than the 2,000 years prior to it.

My psychology teacher puts it this way.... "If you don't like school, then you were born 100 years too late."

Meaning that in todays world, without an education, you'll be upsizing people's combo meals for the rest of your life. We are a society that value's education above all else. America has moved past the Industrial stage into the Post Industrial. Meaning all our factories, steel mills, etc, have gone away. (usually to countries just entering the Industrial era in their own societies.)

Personally, I think we're moving too fast, as a race, and a world society, I'm worried that we are going to burn ourselves out before we can make the changes necessary to cope with all of the new technology that scientists are pumping out left and right.

So, in short, what you're learning may be pointless to you. But it's not. It will benefit you. It will mean the difference between 8 bucks an hour, and 60k a year. That's pretty much it.

If you REALLY want an education that will be worthwhile, consider vocational training or specialized degree's like nursing. etc.


The above statement is it. Do whatever, but be happy doing it. I'm 31 years old and am on my third semester in college. Currently I do not plan on obtaining a degree. I'm going to college to learn what I need/want to learn. Eventually I'm sure I'll end up with a degree, but it's not my reason for attending. I'm building my knowledge base, taking some review classes, and taking a lot of classes that I have an interest in, like Psychology, Sociology, etc.

I learned a long time ago, that no matter how much money you make, if you're not happy, you'll never make enough.

I doubt I'll ever be a millionaire, but I'm going to be happy with whatever I end up doing. I think it would be senseless to spend 1/3 of my life doing something I despise, if I don't have to. And I don't, mostly because I live here in America where the persuit of happiness is a right, not a privilege.


For me, it's not about money anymore. I'll probably end up working with children or displaced families, something along those lines, and that's fine with me.

But I guess I'm a bit lucky. I put my wife through nursing school, she gets to make the big buck's working on the NICU unit. So basically whatever I make is (spending cash).

(we don't have any kids, you see.) hehe.

and until summer of 2005, I get to go to school and figure out exactly what it is I (want) to do. next summer I I'll probably start volunteering at different organizations to get a feel for what I'm interested in.

---------------------

Sorry I rambled, my whole point is that it's really important to do what you like, what you want, and walk away with some kind of fulfillment at the end of the day. That's just me though.

 

Or either:

[hr]"If you're not having fun - you're not doing it right!"[hr]


[div align=right] ~Here, here!!! http://greywolf.clubfte.com/wtspc.gif[/center][/div]

 

Well I guess I will add my worthless ramblings too.
I too was one of those "smart" kids in high school, even after going to a local univ. for my senior year I still pulled off a 3.9 something gpa. I did pretty well on my SAT and finally after taking it 5 times I got a 1260 and was accepted to a school up here in CO. I am now a senior with 238 days left till graduation and am strugling to hold on to my 2.13. Things would probably be alot better if I were able to take a semester off here and there but up here its get done in 4 years or get out. I haven't been home for the past two summers because I've been trying to hold my head above water with summer school so I am extremely burnt out on school.

In high school, despite not doing much of anything, I still knew that I wanted to go come here and how much work it would take to not only get here but also stay here. But now all I can think about is how nice it would to go to a regular school back home with my friends and be doing the things that I want to do. Like working on my truck and enjoying life and the outdoors. Everybody always tells me that it will all be worth it once I graduate but I have been doubting this lately. I think that is much more important to have fun in life and do what you want to do. These are my prime years and I don't want to spend them with my nose stuck in a book learning about electrical, mechanical, civil, aeronautical, and lots of other engineering classes when I am only a worthless buisness major.

Sorry I am taking my aggresion out here. I guess I have to have a conclusion to this worthless rambling so I guess my point goes back to the old saying:

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Obviously I would rather be back home going to school with my friends but on the other hand If I was doing that I would probably rather be here trying to make a future for myself; so I am just gonna stick it out and hope life gets better.