So it's two steps forward, one step back...

We have a Mustang II front end from TCI and had the crossmember etc all welded in by an experienced old Ford guy. We began assembling/installing all the front end components, but when it came time to put the springs in we ran into a problem. We needed to compress the springs to fit them between the A arms. We got ahold of a spring compressor and got the spring cranked down several inches so it fit between the A arms. We rebolted the spindle back together with the A arm and decompressed the spring. But the spring does as all springs do: it extends to the maximum that it can. So it forces the A arms so far downward that the spring will not seat properly on the spring flange (I made that term up, not sure what it is really called) on the lower A arm. Said another way, the lower A arm is forced to such an angle that that spring flange will not engage the bottom of the spring. See the picture below...



I have tried jacking the lower A arm upward to force the spring into position, but the spring is so stiff it just lifts the frame up. The frame has only the engine and the tranny mounted on it, so it IS a little light, BUT the spring doesn't compress AT ALL, or just barely. MAYBE it compresses a quarter inch. I know adding the body and other stuff onto the frame will weight it down a little more, but the engine weighs about 900 lbs, plus the transmission is another 80 or so. I don't think adding another couple hundred pounds is gonna soften up this spring that much.

Here is a youtube movie of us trying unsuccessfully to compress the spring with a floor jack: Mustang II Coil Spring Problem - YouTube

So, now for my question...Do I have the right springs or did TCI send me the wrong ones? The springs I have are 9/16" thick and are 14" long when uncompressed. That is all I know about them. So do I need shorter and/or softer springs? Here are some pics...




Look how much down angle is on the A arms!


The other problem is that with the A arms at such a severe down angle, we cannot get the shock absorber in position. At the current A arm angle, the inboard edge of the spring flange on the lower A arm hits the cylinder of the shock, preventing proper alignment of the shock absorber. Basically the shock cannot make a straight line from its lower mounting bolt to the mounting bracket above the spring because the cylinder hits the inboard edge of the spring flange. Hope that makes sense.


I will try to get ahold of TCI on Monday to ask about the spring stiffness, thickness, length issue. In the mean time, any help?

Thanks!
Tyler

 

spring flange is a good term..

I had to use a threaded rod to pull mine together enough to get the arm bolted back up.. but mine doesn't travel as far as yours does.

they are pretty severe at the start..

will the spring sit on the flange properly by itself?
I have two different MII kits, and springs on one, won't fit the other
(too small in diameter) (the tci springs won't fit the no-name brand.)

Sam

 

Yeah, sam, the spring fits on the spring flange just fine. They are each the right diameter for the other. And just to be clear, my A arms are all bolted in place on the spindle. Everything is closed up. But the spring pushes everything to its max travel, and that is what keeps it from seating properly.

t

 

Been there and did the same thing when I put my truck together. My springs were off of there perches for a long time. I think getting the threaded rod may be the easiest solution ( a friend at work got a "loaner" compressor from the auto parts store ( I think Advance) that was the threaded rod design. You might call around.
I used a jack under the lower A-arm to compress the spring (make sure all is properly placed as you don't want that compressed spring to come at you), but the key is to have the opposite side wheels/tires on the pavement to lever against. I detached the top of the shock( left it in as a "safety" and removed the spindle to get it out of my way. I then lowered the lower A-arm as far as possible to get the spring lined up with the perch( I think I was able to man-handle it into position-I may have levered it-I don't remember). To keep the spring from jumping back off of it's perch. I used a fat headed Vice-grip clamped(upwards from below) on the engine side of the perch to act as a "bump" to keep the spring in place. Then, I jacked it enough to get the spindle attached on top and bottom. I spent about a day getting it where you're at and about 2 hours to redo it correctly.

 

I see one end of the spring is flat, and the other is not. Are you sure you don't have it upside down? Typically one seat is shaped to fit the cut off or not straight across end. It also keeps the spring from rotating. Did the order or kit not specify the spring stiffness? It should be spec'd in lbs./in.
I like carnut's hint that the wheel and tire should be on the other side when jacking the lower A arm, it will put a lot more weight on that side. If you don't have the other spring in yet you should be able to put a block in to support that side temporarily.
Another hint, try disconnecting the sway bar first, while both sides at relaxed or sitting even. it will fight you when you jack up one side so it is quite possibly the actual source of your issues. Reconnect it after your done and the truck is sitting evenly on both wheels.

 

also, movie shows no engine installed.. won't ever be able 'jack' the arm up without the weight.. maybe still not..

how could you have both upper and lower arms bolted to the spindle before starting? the whole point here is to jack to be ABLE to connect the upper arm balljoint..

the TCI springs have a color dot for the strength..
the top of the spring is the flat side, the bottom must be turned so that the left over sits again the retainer where to anti turn bump is.

Sam

 

Morning Sam,
Yeah the engine is installed. You're right, it doesn't show too well in the movie, but if you look closely you do get a slight glimpse of the oil pan in the back ground. Here's the current set up...



Sorry, to be unclear. I didn't have both A arms bolted to the spindle to start with. I had the lower one disconnected. But--and this is the whole point--after installing the spring I was able to get the lower A arm rebolted to the spindle, but as I decompressed the spring it forced the A arm downward to such an angle that the spring perch or spring flange wouldn't engage in the bottom of the spring.



I've got the spring in right side up. Flat side is in the top bracket, the bottom is at the lower A arm, and the end of the spring coil is in line with the spring retainer bump. The bump is just discernible in the pic above, almost dead center, on the spring flange, just at the end of that first long scratch.

I've got the red-dot springs for Ford trucks.

Tyler

 

Yeah, AX Ive got the spring right side up and it WOULD be against the bump if I could get the spring flange up into the bottom of the spring. But that's the problem. I can't get it that high.

No I don't have the wheel on the other side. I am doing a frame off rebuild, so working from a nearly bare frame. Just the engine and tranny on to add weight. But here's a question: Obviously I have the other side of the frame on a jack stand. Would it make any difference if I put the jack stand under the spindle on the other side? I don't have the spring in on the other side or anything yet, would moving the jack stand to where the other wheel WOULD be shorten the lever arm enough to put more of the engine weight on the spring side I am working on? I can see how that might work. That's HS physics there...shorter lever arm, less mechanical advantage...hmmmmm....

I learned in a post above from Sam that I seem to have the right springs. Red-dot TCI springs are for ford trucks, and that's what I've got.

None of the rest of the front end is installed. You mentioned the sway bar etc, but all else is safely in the box, wrapped in plastic.

tyler

 

Thanks Carnutt,

I've tried the jack routine, but it lifts the whole frame. I am doing a frame off rebuld, so none of the other components, including the wheel on the other side, are in place yet. Just the engine and transmission for added weight.

I think I will try moving the opposite jack stand to where the other wheel WOULD be tho. Like you said, that will force more of the engine weight onto the spring I am working on by shortening the lever arm (i.e. if I move the stand there will be a shorter distance from the engine to the stand). Thanks for that idea.

Thanks! T

 

As I recall, you have a TCI frame and other stuff don't you? My frame is original, but TCI MII and other components.

t

 

Sorry, I mistook the upper a arm for the sway bar in the picture.

 

My TCI are also red dot.

here are a couple pics of my setup.. see the lower spring set in the collar/flange

and the total setup

Sam

 

No problem. I am thinking hard about the idea of moving the jack stand to decrease the lever arm. Unfortunately I am out of town til tuesday, so this is all going on in my head until then!

t

 

Thanks for the pics Sam! So, as far as I can tell, it looks like I have everything set up right. It's just a question of getting that dang spring flange and spring to engage each other.

Let me ask this: IF I use a threaded rod to pull the lower A arm and spring up, compressing the spring and bringing the A arm to a lesser angle so the flange and spring fully engage, THEN will they STAY engaged as I decompress the spring or will the flange just pull out of the bottom of the spring?

When I initially installed the spring I only compressed it enough to fit the spring between the upper bracket and the lower A arm (i.e. just enuf to rebolt spindle to the lower A arm). The flange was never all the way up into the spring. Should I try again, compress the spring even further, maybe with a threaded rod, get the flange seated better, then decompress. Will that make it more likely to stay? Or will the spring just extend and push the flange out again?

Thanks guys, Tyler

 

Tyler, I would expect that if you compress the spring with a pair of the typical threaded rod with 2 C hooks spring compressors, enough to allow it to be fully seated on the lower seat and then into the upper pocket so the lower ball joint can be tightened up without any effort then slowly release it allowing it to expand into the upper pocket it should stay in it's proper place. I'd place one compressor towards the side of the spring closest to the frame, the other near opposite. Release the outermost compressor first then the inner one, this will cause the spring to arch like it needs to do in place.