Well not sure how this is going to go, but I have had an on going tuner/performance issue with the truck since I put the chip in. I wrote a long thread over on PSN to get a different field of opinions and ended up only getting one who stated I have turbo surge and I need a new turbo due to my elevation of 5500 feet....

Here is the thread if you want to read it or not....

Tuning issues and EGT'S - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum

I would retype it here but figured it would be easier to read through than try to restate everything.

I hope I am not offending anyone with the link to a different site I was just trying to get a different spectrum of opinions since I have not figured this EGT and power issue out.




So my question for you all is what do you think. Am I really getting turbo surge or is it a tuning issue. My biggest arguement against it is why the hell would I be getting surge on stock injectors? I have not really heard of this issue on stock injectors (might have not searched enough). I want to go to stage ones but if that is going to require a different turbo at the same time I'm not sure if I want to do it. I have been saving for a T500 and stage 1's and have been completing the IC on the back burner. A turbo is in the future but not till the stock one is toast or close to.

PLEASE READ THE OTHER THREAD BEFORE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS

Thanks again guys. I appreciate all of your advice and keep learning a ton on here!

 

I also feel her suggestion for the GQSSB is a bit too much for stage 1's... I do not want to be doing a turbo quite yet...

 

What kind of condition is your compressor wheel in?
Have you done a boost leak test?

 

I did do a boost leak test and found a couple boots slightly leaking. I am not able to tighten them down much more before I feel like I will bend the plenum intake. I will be replacing with all new boots and new 3" plunums here soon when I have a free week end to finish fabbing the charge tubing.

My friend who has worked on 7.3's for quite some time said the turbo appeared to be in excellent condition...

What specific test can be done on the turbo itself to see if there are any signs to replace it? Or its on its way out?

 

I don't think you have an issue with turbo surge. That is a bigger issue with the SD truck, not so much with our OBS trucks. I think you have boost leaks on either the compressor side of the turbo, or the exhaust side is leaking from leaky up pipes, collector, etc.

When you say (on the PSN thread) that you only hear the turbo "flutter" at 60% throttle and above, what do you mean by "flutter"? Are you talking about hearing it spool up and "sing" or are you hearing something else? The surging they are talking about is a completely different sound. It is like you can hear the turbo pumping air, then stopping, then starting, etc. Let me see if I can find a video of turbo surge...

 

Here is a good one:
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q9VavmpGLtI" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
The surging you hear is caused by the exhaust wastegate opening and closing rapidly trying to blow off excess pressure. Since out trucks don't have a wastegate..... you guessed it. You're not having turbo "surging" issues. That's why I am wondering what exactly you are hearing.

 

Man I really wish I could have some one in the truck who knows what this noise exactly is. Ok so if I'm in the stock tune i get a nice crsip turbo whine or sing. this happens all the way to the floor. Now when I put in any peroformance tune I get a noticeable crisp whine a bit louder with less pedal, now when I push past a certain point the whine is still there is just seems turbulent. The sound is not crisp and linear like in the stock tune. it sort of drops off after what I consider to be 60% throttle.

Like I said when I get to this point then I start blowing a bit more black smoke and performance starts to drop. With 12k behind me in a stock tune I can pull any hill I want to in fifth gear besides two where I drop to fourth on my weekly trip with this load.... any tune other than that is absolutely pointless, my speed slows down my revs drop and more black just pours out the pipe.


BTW I really appreciate your advice.... you always seem to comment on most of my threads with great suggestions and questions.


Ok that is nothing like what I'm hearing at all... if thats surge than I am very mistaken...its a nice turbo whine then it almost sounds tubulent and the whistle is less prominent.

 

Since I'm on my phone and psn is awful on mobile. What tuner are you running.

My truck would act simlar to what you just posted when I put the ad injectors in and the 17* Hpop was worn out. T500 solved all the problems. It was a pig above half throttle before now it will pull to redline.

 

Do you have boost numbers when this happens, that would help a lot. You might just be De-fueling due to an over boost situation. Stock it would be impossible to over boost but with a chip, quite possible. What color is your MAP sensor, gray or black?

 

I doubt you have surging problems. I've yet to hear an OBS turbo surge. I too would like to know what your boost is doing. I think I would put a scanner on it and watch ICP and IPR DC % and tell us what that is doing.

Would it be possible to get us a video riding in the truck so we can hear what it's doing? Sometimes that helps.

 

Tuner is an DP F5 with 80 eco, 80 tow, 100, 120, and 140 agressive.

I explain my main issue in the PSN thread.... after reading a ton of threads about surge it is almost positively not the issue. I'm not sure how to test my HPOP if it worn out. Even so I can't afford to do it till I do the injectors in the early fall...

I knew that was going to be one of the first questions, and no I do not have a boost gauge. Its going in with the new IC piping... The boost does not feel as if it drops it just does not continue a strong linear climb like so when in the stock tune. It seems as if the power just sort of falls off. Best way I can compare it is if you have ridden a 2 stroke dirt bike and go past its power band.... The truck has a nice linear power feeling and then it acts like a two stroke bike where its revving higher but not pulling near as hard as if its power curve had plummeted...which it should not be doing so at 2200rpm in a non stock tune.

The stock tune it pulls all the way through.....

How can i check my turbo for wear?

I do not have a scanner...is this something my mechanic can do with me? We are good racing buddies and I'm sure we could take a quick spin. Do they make a scanner that is decently priced...probably should just invest in one sooner or later.

I will try to get some video here soon... I thought of that, however I won't be towing here lately....

I might put the GO pro on the side of the truck to show the smoke when this happens as well. However this will take a week or so to get around to with work.



Once again thanks for all the comments guys, sure gives me a few things to figure out. I might do another boost leak test and see if there is anything I missed.

I just need to get this new IC piping put in and replace the old 2"boots with the 3" setup and that will give a me a bit of peace of mind on boost leaks. I looked at the up pipes when we did the clutch and they are very clean, very little noticeable soot.... I looked at them and my mechanic agreed they appeared to be in darn good shape.

I hope to finish the IC setup +plenums not this weekend but the next, its my only opening for free time...

 

I do not mind just driving in the stock tune right now for towing...I'll be able to figure it out, I'm just quite new to this motor. You guys have helped a ton!


Any one have a link to the cheapest place to buy autometer gauges? Going to pick up a boost and another pyro...

 

It's pretty much impossible to diagnose without a boost gauge. I agree its about impossible to get an OBS to surge. That video posted was not surge either, it was just the wastegate opening and closing rapidly, surge is a very very high pitched squeal that won't happen that rapidly. only way to get an obs to surge is get it wound up to 2500 with 20 psi of boost and rapidly lift off the throttle. I am thinking its a HPOP issue, with the black smoke your obviously not defueling, prolly losing oil pressure and screwing up the timing. It is very odd that the higher HP settings lower the EGT's are you sure they didn't get burned backwards?

 

Pull the intake off and look at the compressor wheel to see if it has any chipped up.
Grab the shaft and with some force try to move it side to side and up and down a little play is ok as long as it doesn't hit the housing then try to move it in and out. If it does go in and out then you need a new turbo

 

I think the sound you're talking about is what I would call turbo "bark" where you're reducing the amount of air needed by the engine quickly and the turbo actually stops and then restarts several times. Sounds like this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S1kYBCttySs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's a 6.7 but you get the idea...

That's what I would call turbo bark, but I'm no expert on linguistic terms for turbo charger sound effects, lol.

Maybe we're all talking about the same thing (or all talking about different things), but the bottom line is that with stock injectors and stock turbo, you shouldn't hear either one of those sound effects!