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Eco-boost durability

 
  #46  
Old 05-18-2012, 11:39 AM
parkland
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Originally Posted by khensley View Post
Ford's smart. They built a truck that will get comparatively good mileage as a daily driver...and in that small percentage of time that the AVERAGE pickup truck driver needs to pull something, it can handle it just fine.

Anyone who's regularly (50+%?) towing should be running a diesel 3/4 ton or larger, IMHO.
Yes, I noticed in the last few years, ford has been motivated into this thought process.
The 6.7 diesel is a way better engine for empty daily driving. The ecoboost is also good at big power when needed, but humbler mileage empty.

This is good.
 
  #47  
Old 05-18-2012, 11:43 AM
parkland
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Originally Posted by mitch150 View Post
Well here we are 7 years later and it's still going strong, so as for the durability and longevity of the eco-boost, only mileage will tell, not time as some on here seem to believe .
Time also has an effect on mechanical parts.
What about seals sitting, sensors, etc etc,

I would bet my left nut that if you took 10 ecoboost trucks, and put 100,000 miles on five of them within 1 year, and 100,000 miles on the other 5 within 7 years, there would be a huge difference between the 2 groups.
 
  #48  
Old 05-18-2012, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
Time also has an effect on mechanical parts.
What about seals sitting, sensors, etc etc,

I would bet my left nut that if you took 10 ecoboost trucks, and put 100,000 miles on five of them within 1 year, and 100,000 miles on the other 5 within 7 years, there would be a huge difference between the 2 groups.
I absolutely agree with your perfect example although I would wager $20 and not any body parts There are heat/cold weather cycles, salt bath corrosion of engine parts and sensors and electrical connections/grounds (I think of 7 Michigan winters), condensation in engine oil and fuel tank, spark plugs corroding onto heads, antifreeze and other fluids aging, etc. that cause a lot of real world problems.

As I said, there is no perfect way to simulate age in torture testing a vehicle. Time will tell.

George
 
  #49  
Old 05-18-2012, 10:48 PM
tgrout
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This opinion is coming from a new Ford truck owner, but I have been around turbos all my life in off-road diesels. IMO, turbos get a bad rap because people don't know much about them (not widely available in gas vehicles) and don't know how to take care of them. A turbo is like any other lubricated part of the engine - if you know how to take care of them, they will take care of you.

A turbo is basically a jet turbine that spins at a very high speed, fed off of the exhaust, to push air into the cylinder for more air and better combustion. The main bearing of a turbo is cooled by engine oil circulating through it. When turbos have been operating for bit of time, they get very hot! If you shut down the engine shortly after use, the engine oil stops flowing, but the turbo is still hot and ends up cooking the oil. That is why many diesel engines have a delayed shutdown feature that keeps the engine running for a short time after the key is turned off. This allows the engine to idle, meaning the turbo doesn't spin and cools down with oil still circulating through the turbo. If you just shut down the engine, the oil stops flowing, and the hot turbo just cooks the engine oil. I'm no expert on gas engines, but I would expect the same results.

So, if I had a turbo engine, I would probably let the engine idle for a short bit to let the turbo cool down properly to prevent lock-up. Just my 2 cents. IMO, if you take care of a turbo, it will take care of you in the long run.
 
  #50  
Old 05-18-2012, 11:27 PM
YoGeorge
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Hi Tgrout and welcome to the FTE forum and congrats on your new Ford truck. A lot of great gearheads and discussion here.

Although I am still in the "time will tell" camp re the EcoBoost, I will note that the turbos in that engine also have water cooling which continues after shutdown using internal siphoning. It is discussed in this article:

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=29657

So Ford has definitely thought hard about protecting the turbos--they have a lot at stake with the EcoBoost engine line. That said, I would definitely let any turbocharged engine, including an EcoBoost, to idle and cool for a couple minutes before shutdown if I had recently been running it hard (such as pulling off at a freeway rest stop after towing or pulling up a long hill). But the water cooling would certainly aid in bringing down the turbo temperature more quickly than just the oil.

I just noted this older article says that the EB uses 5W20 oil, but know that they changed the recommended oil to 5W30 in all EB engines when it was introduced in the F150 in 2011.

The only turbo vehicle I ever owned was a 1986 Dodge Lancer with the old 2.2 Turbo engine. It had the 7/70 warranty, and at 69k it blew the head gasket, which mixed oil and coolant and got me a new turbo, and almost a full engine rebuild. I really liked that car and enjoyed the whistling and feeling of the turbo kicking in after a short lag. And I always let it cool down at idle; sold it to a friend at 105k miles or so, and he drove it for a long time thereafter.

George
 
  #51  
Old 05-19-2012, 12:08 AM
parkland
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I really wouldn't worry too much about cool down periods.

The only time I've ever seen a turbo get F-d from was in a tractor when it was worked flat out all day, then shut down because there was a small electrical fire.
 
  #52  
Old 05-19-2012, 08:44 AM
MikeWolfe
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Good morning All:
Here is some interesting data on Turbo'ed engines
Water cooled Turbo's do not requitre the cool down that was important non water cooled versions.
Turbo's are altitude equalizers.
Turboed engines of the same torque ratings as a NA engine will produce more power (torque) at high altitudes
Ford does recommend Premium for the ECO Boost engines when hauling heavy loads
Here is the data form the owner's manual for fuel recommendations.
3.5L V6 EcoBoost™ engine
“Regular” unleaded gasoline with a pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 is
recommended. Some stations offer fuels posted as “Regular” with an
octane rating below 87, particularly in high altitude areas. Fuels with
octane levels below 87 are not recommended. Premium fuel will provide
improved performance and is recommended for severe duty usage such
as trailer tow.
Do not be concerned if your engine
sometimes knocks lightly. However,
if it knocks heavily while you are
using fuel with the recommended
octane rating, see your authorized
dealer to prevent any engine damage.
 
  #53  
Old 05-19-2012, 11:26 AM
parkland
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I've never seen less than 87.
 
  #54  
Old 05-19-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
I've never seen less than 87.
It's sold in high altitude areas in the Western states.
 
  #55  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:55 PM
MikeWolfe
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Smile

Originally Posted by parkland View Post
Why would you want high octane fuel on a direct injected engine?
Hi Parkland
I did not understand your question previously
Only noticed your comment about the tree.
Sorry
Here is my response
Most of today's modern higher performance engines are designed to run acceptably on 87octane fuel.
However most of them will perform better on premium.
The higher octane the fuel (to a point) the better the engien will perform.
If the engine has a compression ratio of 10-1 or higher then it will probably perform better on premium.
I would also expect reduced fuel consumption with premium since the Knock Sensors would not retard the ignition timing as much with the higher octane fuel.
Hope this answers your question adequately.
 
  #56  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:48 PM
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Looking for a new truck,, checked out the Tundra,, very nice truck, strong engine, very tight turning radius, $33,000+ for the extended cab 4x4. Dodge rode very nice, smooth, engine (not the hemi) seemed hobbled, no guts. Drove 2 Ford supercabs today, first has the 5.0, ride was not as smooth as the dodge, though about on par with the Tundra. Engine was strong but not as much pep as the mid Toyota engine. Then I got to drive the Eccoboost engine,, HOLY *****, that was a fun truck,, acceleration on tap.
 
  #57  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:10 PM
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Great article, YoGeorge, thanks for passing along the link. I didn't realize the turbo has a water-cooled jacket in the EB. That's good to know. My experience is in off-road diesels where the turbos are mostly oil-cooled. Excellent info, and awesome site.

I love the 5.0 in my '11. After reading some of the posts here, I can't wait to test drive a EB!
 
  #58  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:43 PM
parkland
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Originally Posted by MikeWolfe View Post
Hi Parkland
I did not understand your question previously
Only noticed your comment about the tree.
Sorry
Here is my response
Most of today's modern higher performance engines are designed to run acceptably on 87octane fuel.
However most of them will perform better on premium.
The higher octane the fuel (to a point) the better the engien will perform.
If the engine has a compression ratio of 10-1 or higher then it will probably perform better on premium.
I would also expect reduced fuel consumption with premium since the Knock Sensors would not retard the ignition timing as much with the higher octane fuel.
Hope this answers your question adequately.

I thought the fuel was ignited by spark as it was being injected, so I might have misunderstood a little of how the engine works.

If it is injected prior to being ignited, I really don't see the benefit of direct injection at all.
 
  #59  
Old 05-20-2012, 10:31 PM
YoGeorge
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
I thought the fuel was ignited by spark as it was being injected, so I might have misunderstood a little of how the engine works.

If it is injected prior to being ignited, I really don't see the benefit of direct injection at all.
It is about controlling the fuel; it does not have to atomize in a bunch of air on the manifold side of the intake valve and puddle up on the wrong size of the valve or in the port, and the timing of the fuel squirt can be much more precise than traditional port injection and can atomize much better, and be placed in precisely the best spot in the combustion chamber in relation to the spark plug..

A direct injection engine can be more economical than port injection, just as a port injected engine is way more economical than a carbureted or even a throttle body injected engine, where fuel and air are mixed a mile away (figuratively) from where combustion will happen.

One downside of some direct injected engines is that the back sides of the intake valves get all gummed up from EGR and PCV gunk, and you don't have the fuel with detergents passing over the back side of the intake valve to "powerwash" it. Just do some Google searching and you'll find a whole bunch of stuff, parkland.

George
 
  #60  
Old 05-21-2012, 12:37 AM
parkland
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I understand most of it, including what you just said, but my misunderstanding is with the spark timing.
I assumed that the fuel would be sprayed near TDC, accompanied with a spark. I would appear to be incorrect in thinking that.

I had no idea the fuel was sprayed early enough to allow pre-detonation.
 

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