Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Coutts Canada
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
This is something i have though about for a while and its something i have never seen done. What my idea is you take a ranger supercab frame, cab, and box and 2 3/4 tons with the dana 50 TTB. Then take the axles and put something like 5.10 gears, air lockers, reinforce them so they are comparable to a dana 60 or more. Then you modify them to get 20 or so inches of travel. Also by using hydralic rams, junk the trie rods and mod the dana 50s to accept the hydralic rams for 4 wheel steer. Then you take the 3/4 tons and take the dana 50 mounts from them and do the frankenstein thing and put them in the Ranger. Then use dual coilovers on each wheel. Then you some 38" baja claws for rubber.
What do you think? I think that this would be a highly successful setup because of the travel and flex that the TTB's are capable of, the strenght is better then other IFS setups, and the 4 wheel steer. Do you have any ideas?
What do you think? I think that this would be a highly successful setup because of the travel and flex that the TTB's are capable of, the strenght is better then other IFS setups, and the 4 wheel steer. Do you have any ideas?
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
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From: Oregon
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
I always like thinking out of the box, but you might want to consider why the pro rockcrawlers don't bother with the D50s. Then again, if your fab skills are up to snuff do what ya want.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
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From: Neenah, Wisconsin
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
i'm going to have to agree....its a hell of an idea, but it would be a fab nightmare. you'd also be using the gear backwards in the rear which could cause a problem in the long run. But it'd be cool to see..
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Coutts Canada
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
One way to correct that problem would be to take a dana 50 or 60, and make it so the gears are rotating the correct way. I don't think that it would that difficult of a fab job just as long as you are a good metal worker and you know your stuff when it comes to the powertrain and suspension.
Now only if i had the money and the time.
Now only if i had the money and the time.
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Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
I love the idea of using a Ranger, because thats what Im doing. But I have to say I hate the TTB setup. Where it offers good wheel travel, it does not do well for ground clearance. I think you would beat up your diffs trying to use a TTB. I am using Dana 60 F/R full width axles with 44s. I have a cool crossover IFS concept, but its very far fetched. I just dont like the TTB, but thats just my opinion.
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From: McChord AFB
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
thats an awsome idea. It would be hard to do but its awsome. And also if you had enough power after rock crawling you could even go haras the dessert racers whith that set up
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Coutts Canada
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
Lets see here what would this job the hardest would beee money, money and probably more money. Oh well one can always dream or win the lottery.
To each his own: You would be surprised at how much clearence thats avaible from the TTB. I can't remember who makes them but they do kits for the dana 44 ttb that gives 4 inches of lift and 16 inches of travel and a whole lot more clearence, the diff is the same height as any other dana 44 but the rest has by far more clearence.
To each his own: You would be surprised at how much clearence thats avaible from the TTB. I can't remember who makes them but they do kits for the dana 44 ttb that gives 4 inches of lift and 16 inches of travel and a whole lot more clearence, the diff is the same height as any other dana 44 but the rest has by far more clearence.
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Elder User
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: McChord AFB
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
yeah its realy simple anny IFS system will have more ground clearance than a solid axle. This is becouse the pumpkin is tucked up and the actuall axle shafts are at an angle.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Memphis, TN
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
I agree, MEPR - I've never understood the argument that a solid has more ground clearance than an independent. A solid NEVER has more clearance than (the height of the tire - the ring gear diameter / 2 ) - ~2.5" for the bottom of the diff housing under the ring gear.
But the ground clearance for an IFS changes with articulation - parts of the suspension can flex up & out of the way of obstacles, so the term almost has no meaning when applied to independents.
Plus, ANYTHING you can do to a solid (to improve clearance or any other characteristic) can also be done to an independent. The HMMWV uses portal independent suspension F&R, and has probably the most ground clearance of any production light truck ever.
The TTB has probably the best potential for articulation & ride quality, as evidenced by the design of trophy trucks - they also use lower suspension arms that cross the centerline.
But the ground clearance for an IFS changes with articulation - parts of the suspension can flex up & out of the way of obstacles, so the term almost has no meaning when applied to independents.
Plus, ANYTHING you can do to a solid (to improve clearance or any other characteristic) can also be done to an independent. The HMMWV uses portal independent suspension F&R, and has probably the most ground clearance of any production light truck ever.
The TTB has probably the best potential for articulation & ride quality, as evidenced by the design of trophy trucks - they also use lower suspension arms that cross the centerline.
Last edited by steve83; May 3, 2003 at 11:11 PM.
Freshman User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 37
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From: Mtn Home ID
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
Dont worry about the gears running backwards if you run a front axle in the rear. I just finished a Dana 44 high pinion front axle and put it in the rear of my jeep works just fine and runs on the correct side of the ring gear not the coast side.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Neenah, Wisconsin
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
you can't just run a front axle in the rear....you'll get the pinion runnin on the coast side of the gear. if you turn the axle around, you need to turn the driveshaft in the oppisite direction to move in the same direction. when you do this you run your gears backwards. Not good for gear life or strenghth.
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Joined: May 2003
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From: Mtn Home ID
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
Ryan50hrl
Better do some more homework
I did lots before I started this project. I called a few major drivetrain places (Randys ring and pinion and a few others) and they said that it will work with no problems and run on the power side of the ring gear.
I just went out to the warehouse ( I own a wrecking yard here in Idaho) to grab a front center section from a 80 to 97 Ford pickup which uses the same ring and pinion as the early high pinion front ends. I turned it like it was in the front and then like it was in the back both ways it contacts on the power side of the ring gear NOT the coast side. I found a good site on the web that will explain this issue better that I can I will post it if I can find it.
Better do some more homework
I did lots before I started this project. I called a few major drivetrain places (Randys ring and pinion and a few others) and they said that it will work with no problems and run on the power side of the ring gear.
I just went out to the warehouse ( I own a wrecking yard here in Idaho) to grab a front center section from a 80 to 97 Ford pickup which uses the same ring and pinion as the early high pinion front ends. I turned it like it was in the front and then like it was in the back both ways it contacts on the power side of the ring gear NOT the coast side. I found a good site on the web that will explain this issue better that I can I will post it if I can find it.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Coutts Canada
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
"IFS = wussy"
I don't know about you but i don't consider the dana44 ttb or the dana 50 ttb a true ifs because if you look at all the current IFS systems out there their differientials are fixed to the frame and have the 2 u-joints or CV-joints thus 2 points of articulation in the front axle not including the springs and shocks. Now on the TTB only has one point of articulation right in the center and also the differential is not fixed, it moves with the axles. And i think that this is an advantage over other systems because there aren't as many moving parts and so one.(no offense from this is meant)
"Mention portal axles and then we'll talk"
Lets see here i assume you mean the unimog portals? If so then they have the portal ends which means loweer gearing and more ground clearence, if were good enough take these ends and somehow graph(not to sure on the portal make-up) them onto the dana 50 and there ya go, a little bit of the good old military technology with some ford partsd thrown into the mix.
I don't know about you but i don't consider the dana44 ttb or the dana 50 ttb a true ifs because if you look at all the current IFS systems out there their differientials are fixed to the frame and have the 2 u-joints or CV-joints thus 2 points of articulation in the front axle not including the springs and shocks. Now on the TTB only has one point of articulation right in the center and also the differential is not fixed, it moves with the axles. And i think that this is an advantage over other systems because there aren't as many moving parts and so one.(no offense from this is meant)
"Mention portal axles and then we'll talk"
Lets see here i assume you mean the unimog portals? If so then they have the portal ends which means loweer gearing and more ground clearence, if were good enough take these ends and somehow graph(not to sure on the portal make-up) them onto the dana 50 and there ya go, a little bit of the good old military technology with some ford partsd thrown into the mix.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 4
From: Neenah, Wisconsin
Rockcrawling idea(suspension)
Well traditional ifs suspensions ie: A-arm suspension does have two points of articulation as you put it..but its not the axle shafts, its the ball joints and the a arm bushings. The ttb does have only one "articulation point" the inner bushing, hence the terrible tire wear. In this situation we're not concened with that though. The ttb is better at articulating off road than a a arm suspension because the distance from the out side of the tire to the pivot point is longer...allowing more droop. a solid axle suspension works the best because the pivot point is the oppisite tire...as far as possible away. your ttb is going to be better than a a arm ifs, but not as good as a solid axle.
also a note for future reference...your passanger side of the ttb has two joints just like an a arm sus*****on
also a note for future reference...your passanger side of the ttb has two joints just like an a arm sus*****on