When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
All I can say is after swapping in the BWD last night after having the newer ford one in there its night and day difference in smoothness. Both at idle as well as when driving. My drive is very consistent and the idiot meter normally once I get 100 miles on it does not move even 0.1 mile for avg mpg. Today I had to drive back and forth many times and put on another 100 mils. The gauge moved 3 tenths already.
For my wipers I had not issue that some have with wiper motor causing issues. I was almost hoping it would so I could do the mod on the ground wire to see it work on my truck as well. Just another confirmation is all I was looking for.
Back to the CPS, Cam Position Sensor, just a little more info I learned messing with them. Nothing scientific, just common sense.
A few years ago I cut into the CPS units looking for the design flaws.
I discovered the Dark Blue International Unit has an off-set hall sensor and it's almost 3/16" off center. This is wasting so much fuel and throwing the timing way off. The plastic end cap was almost 3/32 thick blocking the signal even more.
So I cut the end caps off the units and ran them with just the hall sensor magnets exposed.
There is a US Company Allegro Micro ,making the new CPS units, The ATS616 is the new off-set hall sensor replacing the ATS615 units in the first Dark Blue IH and Gray Ford Units. The ATS675 is the new Borg Warner CPS with the centered larger hall sensor replacing the older ATS674 units in the first runs. The only way to tell what you have is to cut the end cap off carefully with a dremel or other tool and expose the hall sensor. The B&W will have a small keyway when you cut the end cap off and I just filled the keyway with clear silicone. The CPS at the beginning of this thread is not the real BW unit with the Allergo hall sensor, but it looks like an Asian knock-off.
The Allegro hall sensors will have the manufacture build codes on the smooth end of the hall sensor, you can see te writing with a Loop Glass once you cut the end off.
I found running the BW CPS with the end cap chopped off allowed the magnetic hall sensor to count the 12 teeth on the flywheel much better than with the thin plastic cover on the stock unit.
The old original Black CPS was made by Borg Warner as I was told by Bob (Guzzle)
and it has the magnetic hall sensor exposed in the center with no plastic cover obstructing the sensor. The stronger the magnetic strength on the hall sensor, the better the signal count of the 12 teeth per revolution is. When you "Get on it" and the flywheel is spinning like crazy the quality of your CPS will either send the correct 100% reading to the PCM or a confused "Guesstimate" to your PCM with the later causing loss of fuel and poor timing.
This is the Borg Warner CPS with the Allegro Hall Sensor ATS674, all the
Allegro ATS674 or the new ATS675 have the gray plastic around the Hall Sensor. If it does not have the gray plastic it's probably an Asian copy, check the numbers in the end of the black hall sensor to see who the manufacture is. I ran this BW unit with the end cap cut off and it ran so9 much better than with the thin plastic cover over it. I ran the exact same unit first with the plastic cover over the hall sensor, then cut off like this photo shows.
This is the cheaper ATS 615 Off-Set hall sensor on the newer Dark Blue IH CPS Units. I also ran this one with the end plastic cut off and it sucks no matter how you try it. very high EGT's and dumped fuel poor timing.
Below is the old stock CPS from 2001 era, notice the hall sensor is exposed in the center of the cps, the 2 very small holes is where they injected the silicone to set the sensor inside from moving. This was the correct design from the beginning, if the air gap from the cps tom the flywheel is measured to the end of the cps, the newer units that have the hall sensor pushed back as far as 1/4" or more are having a hard time counting the 12 tooth flywheel.
Below another pic of the older best cps, I use a 5" long steel needle to test the strength of the hall sensor. The magnetic strength is so strong the needle will stay up even if bumped or touched. The new CPS units are not strong enough to even balance the needle.
When you look at the below pic of the hall sensor, you can see the needle is centered on the hall sensor perfectly, if you try to push the needle over 1/8" of an inch on the center hall sensor, it goes right back to the exact center of the hall sensor. This is where the PCM wants to see the CPS signal coming from.
The new Borg Warner is not as exact as the older units, but it's so much better than any other sensor out there. Years ago Allegro made all the sensors in the USA in MA., but now they have a plant in Asia making the sensors for the MA. based company.
These are some of the units I cut open, all were disappointing except the BW. I will cut some more open and post some pics on some newer units.
Remember to torque your 10MM CPS Bolt at least 18 ft. lbs. as it sucks the CPS end cap closer to the flywheel. Some people just snug fit them, and they will move in at least another 1/8" of an inch.
Back to the CPS, Cam Position Sensor, just a little more info I learned messing with them. Nothing scientific, just common sense.
A few years ago I cut into the CPS units looking for the design flaws.
I discovered the Dark Blue International Unit has an off-set hall sensor and it's almost 3/16" off center. This is wasting so much fuel and throwing the timing way off. The plastic end cap was almost 3/32 thick blocking the signal even more.
So I cut the end caps off the units and ran them with just the hall sensor magnets exposed.
There is a US Company Allegro Micro ,making the new CPS units, The ATS616 is the new off-set hall sensor replacing the ATS615 units in the first Dark Blue IH and Gray Ford Units. The ATS675 is the new Borg Warner CPS with the centered larger hall sensor replacing the older ATS674 units in the first runs. The only way to tell what you have is to cut the end cap off carefully with a dremel or other tool and expose the hall sensor. The B&W will have a small keyway when you cut the end cap off and I just filled the keyway with clear silicone. The CPS at the beginning of this thread is not the real BW unit with the Allergo hall sensor, but it looks like an Asian knock-off.
The Allegro hall sensors will have the manufacture build codes on the smooth end of the hall sensor, you can see te writing with a Loop Glass once you cut the end off.
I found running the BW CPS with the end cap chopped off allowed the magnetic hall sensor to count the 12 teeth on the flywheel much better than with the thin plastic cover on the stock unit.
The old original Black CPS was made by Borg Warner as I was told by Bob (Guzzle)
and it has the magnetic hall sensor exposed in the center with no plastic cover obstructing the sensor. The stronger the magnetic strength on the hall sensor, the better the signal count of the 12 teeth per revolution is. When you "Get on it" and the flywheel is spinning like crazy the quality of your CPS will either send the correct 100% reading to the PCM or a confused "Guesstimate" to your PCM with the later causing loss of fuel and poor timing.
This is the Borg Warner CPS with the Allegro Hall Sensor ATS674, all the
Allegro ATS674 or the new ATS675 have the gray plastic around the Hall Sensor. If it does not have the gray plastic it's probably an Asian copy, check the numbers in the end of the black hall sensor to see who the manufacture is. I ran this BW unit with the end cap cut off and it ran so9 much better than with the thin plastic cover over it. I ran the exact same unit first with the plastic cover over the hall sensor, then cut off like this photo shows.
This is the cheaper ATS 615 Off-Set hall sensor on the newer Dark Blue IH CPS Units. I also ran this one with the end plastic cut off and it sucks no matter how you try it. very high EGT's and dumped fuel poor timing.
Below is the old stock CPS from 2001 era, notice the hall sensor is exposed in the center of the cps, the 2 very small holes is where they injected the silicone to set the sensor inside from moving. This was the correct design from the beginning, if the air gap from the cps tom the flywheel is measured to the end of the cps, the newer units that have the hall sensor pushed back as far as 1/4" or more are having a hard time counting the 12 tooth flywheel.
Below another pic of the older best cps, I use a 5" long steel needle to test the strength of the hall sensor. The magnetic strength is so strong the needle will stay up even if bumped or touched. The new CPS units are not strong enough to even balance the needle.
When you look at the below pic of the hall sensor, you can see the needle is centered on the hall sensor perfectly, if you try to push the needle over 1/8" of an inch on the center hall sensor, it goes right back to the exact center of the hall sensor. This is where the PCM wants to see the CPS signal coming from.
The new Borg Warner is not as exact as the older units, but it's so much better than any other sensor out there. Years ago Allegro made all the sensors in the USA in MA., but now they have a plant in Asia making the sensors for the MA. based company.
These are some of the units I cut open, all were disappointing except the BW. I will cut some more open and post some pics on some newer units.
Remember to torque your 10MM CPS Bolt at least 18 ft. lbs. as it sucks the CPS end cap closer to the flywheel. Some people just snug fit them, and they will move in at least another 1/8" of an inch.
Serious gigantic reps for this post! Great photographs and lot's of explanatory details. Thank you, and I look forward to reading about more of the CPS sensors you cut open.
I've been reading on the CPS for quite some time and finally signed up to ask which one of these is the best to buy? I was interested in replacing my CPS as preventative maintenence as I recently bought a 2003 CC, long bed which now has 188,000 on the clock.
After this thread and several others about the IH blue sensor, I'm second guessing my purchas of a new Ford gray CPS (part F7TZ-12K073-B). do Yall think I should swap for the Ford or look at the BW CPS? Also, Is it even a good idea to change it at this point or just hold on to one in the glove box incase mine goes out?
One thing to point out, the CPS does not read teeth on the flywheel, it's located on the opposite end of the engine. I reads eight "doors" or "windows" cut into the cam gear which signals the PCM to and identifies cylinder/piston position. I have been running the BW CPS for over a year and a half with no issues at all. FWIW the magnet is much stronger than the grey "recall" CPS.
Reviving this thread - is the 'BW' the same as the 'BWD' sensor sold at most auto parts stores? Is this the one to buy? I have an International truck dealer right around the corner and could buy theirs, but I'd like to get a good spare to have on hand.
Reviving this thread - is the 'BW' the same as the 'BWD' sensor sold at most auto parts stores? Is this the one to buy? I have an International truck dealer right around the corner and could buy theirs, but I'd like to get a good spare to have on hand.
I have finally ridden in a truck where the CPS fails out of nowhere. It isn't fun. Well, it actually was kind of fun in retrospect because nobody got hurt. The truck stopped in the middle of the road, and the driver and I looked at each other for a minute and the thought hit us simultaneously. We both said "Son of a BWD". Actually, the sensor was from NAPA.
Anyway, this huge, epic, mythical, one day, some day, any day failure... finally, I got to witness it happen. After 15 years of not so much as a hiccup with my original bone stock black CPS in my 2000 truck, I was starting to think this whole cps failure thing was a disinformation campaign put out by the Ram marketing team. But no, it's real. And the failure I witnessed was with an AFTERMARKET sensor. FWIW.
Was it Curtis that did his tests on the magnet by picking up different size washers to compare magnet strength? Sounds like a worthwhile test, especially if you can find a good BW part and compare them.
Probably the same reason some of the original Ford parts failed so quickly while others kept on for a couple hundred thousand miles. Whatever the reason, it's something we don't understand yet.
*knocks on wood and does the apeasdment to the Ford gods by offering sacrificial Chevy to them* ok hopefully I won't be screwed by saying this but I looked at mine and it still looks like it may be original to the factory as far as I can tell, no history of it being replaced ever...other parts, and fluids have been replaced, am I doing something good here?
*knocks on wood and does the apeasdment to the Ford gods by offering sacrificial Chevy to them* ok hopefully I won't be screwed by saying this but I looked at mine and it still looks like it may be original to the factory as far as I can tell, no history of it being replaced ever...other parts, and fluids have been replaced, am I doing something good here?
05-06-2013, 01:21 AM
