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5.4L at idol nocks and shakes (sometimes)

 
  #106  
Old 07-25-2017, 01:35 PM
okiemike
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Originally Posted by eddieniner View Post
most likely is, that's what expedition would do sound like a diesel at stop lights or drive thru. If u change the cam phasers u should a few things around there
THANKS!
you saying like change the tensioner and the chain?
Mine seems to make a ticking sound when driving like in a drive thru, but on occasion it will sound terrible like it is going to die. only does this when hot, or after been driving a few miles, and only at idle speeds.
Is fixing this a must? will i cause more damage driving it?
I have a check engine light, but the code it is throwing is for the gas cap.... and this car has the capless gas cap.
 
  #107  
Old 07-25-2017, 02:40 PM
eddieniner
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Knocking

Originally Posted by okiemike View Post
THANKS!
you saying like change the tensioner and the chain?
Mine seems to make a ticking sound when driving like in a drive thru, but on occasion it will sound terrible like it is going to die. only does this when hot, or after been driving a few miles, and only at idle speeds.
Is fixing this a must? will i cause more damage driving it?
I have a check engine light, but the code it is throwing is for the gas cap.... and this car has the capless gas cap.
kn

Eventually it'll get worse down the road. Yeah chain and tensioner would be good, there's a kit on Amazon for 200 or 300 very good deal. The knocking will be consistent if not fixed mines was ok for like 2 years before it got consistent
 
  #108  
Old 08-19-2017, 12:16 AM
tiredtrucker
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I have the same problem with my 2010 F150 with the 5.4l. I had severe problems and replaced cam phasers, timing chains and guides, vct solenoids, a new oil pump and spark plugs. It now purrs like a kitten until the oil is hot and idling at a red light. It then goes into the shaking and rattling routine. With 270,000 km on the clock, I wanted to monitor the oil pressure, so I installed a mechanical pressure gauge and tapped the line into a fitting soldered into the center of the oil filter. The pressure is 40-50 lbs at 1000 rpm and 60 and more at cruising. But when hot and idling, the rpm will drop to about 500 rpm with oil pressure at 25 to below 20 and that is when the rough idle, knocking and sometimes stalling occurs. I believe I have read that these low oil pressures are considered the new normal by Ford. And with the good pressure at cruising, it may not do any good to replace the bearings. My current solution is to keep the revs up at the lights. I wish I could find a place to mount the gauge inside the cab, rather than on the hood. Is there a chip available to increase the idle rpm? Or an ECU upgrade? That would be the best solution at this time. I will be starting a thread asking for expert advise for a red neck solution I dreamt up this afternoon.
 
  #109  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:50 PM
chasef250
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Similar rough idle problem and loss of power

I replaced the VCTs and nothing helped. One mechanic said it needed a new engine, a friend knew a Ford mechanic and he said a lot of people put 20W50 in it and it goes away. First I put 10W40 and it almost solved the rough idle but not completely. I put 20W50 in it and drove it for 45 minutes and it didn't hiccup once.

The symptoms were that it would run fine until it got up to operating temperature, then the idle became very rough and power loss was significant upon acceleration. P0022,P0012, P0300, P0305, P0345....

Can anyone explain why the 20W50 made all these symptoms go away and it runs quietly and powerfully now?
 
  #110  
Old 09-02-2017, 08:41 PM
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Two words: oil pressure. The 20w50 is thicker so the pressure is higher at idle. The stock oil pump has a plate behind the gears that allows pressure to bleed off. Plus you could have leaking chain tensioners bleeding off pressure.
 
  #111  
Old 02-14-2019, 10:46 PM
AaronFord
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by chasef250 View Post
I replaced the VCTs and nothing helped. One mechanic said it needed a new engine, a friend knew a Ford mechanic and he said a lot of people put 20W50 in it and it goes away. First I put 10W40 and it almost solved the rough idle but not completely. I put 20W50 in it and drove it for 45 minutes and it didn't hiccup once.

The symptoms were that it would run fine until it got up to operating temperature, then the idle became very rough and power loss was significant upon acceleration. P0022,P0012, P0300, P0305, P0345....

Can anyone explain why the 20W50 made all these symptoms go away and it runs quietly and powerfully now?
I know I am resurrecting a old thread but wanted to post this for anyone else who has the same question.

Thicker oils in the 5.4 improve the oil pressure. This is important because the phasers require enough pressure to function. Minimum pressure for them to work correctly is 25psi at idle (in drive) ideally it's higher like 30+psi. With insufficient pressure one or both banks will phase their cams inconsistently thus throwing the timing off. Phaser function is returned back to normal when the oil pressure is established (higher rpm). Your engine is more powerful now because the phasers have enough pressure to function correctly and both sides are in time.

If this problem was not diagnosed properly it's possible to replace the phasers and VCT solenoids and still have this issue. Many people have spent many thousands of dollars chasing this issue and throwing parts at the engine.

FYI: The oil "gauge" in the cab is wired to a pressure switch, it does not actually measure oil pressure, I think anything over 10-15psi will activate the switch. You will need a real analog gauge to read the actual oil pressure.

This seems to be a 5.4 design flaw. It does seem to be worked around by using heavier oil. I am not sure what the long term effects of running heavy oil will be on the engine. Since phasers only retard timing from normal, you may consider locking the phasers (with a kit) into the normal timing position. This will throw the check engine light but the system can be reprogrammed to not do this. You may lose 1-2 mpg in fuel efficiency, power should be about the same. Essentially you will be disabling the variable cam system and trade some efficiency for reliability. If you did that you should be able to return back to a 5w20 or 5w30 oil.

How is your engine running now? Are you still running 20w50?

- Aaron
 
 
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