Is Decel Tune Safe?
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 406
Likes: 5
From: Fox Island, WA
Is Decel Tune Safe?
I just got my DP tunes hooked up including "Decel" and was searching around the internet and found PHP doesn't offer it saying it can be unsafe under larger loads. Anyone with experience good or bad? Of course I see this right after I got it. Here's from their website.....
Do you offer a "decel" or "exhaust brake" calibration? Simply put, no, we don't because it goes against our business philosophy which, in part, is to provide safe, reliable products to our customers.
For those who don't know, this is a calibration that uses the EBV (Exhaust Backpressure Valve) as a makeshift exhaust brake. While this setup may work reasonably well for lightly loaded vehicles, we generally do not recommend this type of calibration... at least not for automatic transmission vehicles. There are a few reasons we don't recommend this.
First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged. The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches. On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown. Again, lightly loaded vehicles would have less of a problem with this, but the general idea of an exhaust brake is to be able to slow larger loads without overheating the standard brake system. It is these types of loads that can cause transmission damage. Obviously, a manual transmission would be free from these types of situations.
Second, whenever you increase exhaust backpressure, you need to make sure that the exhaust valve springs are capable of preventing the pressure in the exhaust system from lifting the exhaust valve from the valve seat, as this would result in a collision with the piston. Normal valve spring seat pressure is 70-75 PSI for NEW valve springs and deteriorates from there. Given that the surface area of the back of the exhaust valve is approximately 1.9 square inches, it would take only 40 PSI of exhaust pressure to lift the valve off the seat, even with new valve springs.
To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation.
I guess i'll use this rarely, but under loaded conditions. Hope i'm GTG.
Do you offer a "decel" or "exhaust brake" calibration? Simply put, no, we don't because it goes against our business philosophy which, in part, is to provide safe, reliable products to our customers.
For those who don't know, this is a calibration that uses the EBV (Exhaust Backpressure Valve) as a makeshift exhaust brake. While this setup may work reasonably well for lightly loaded vehicles, we generally do not recommend this type of calibration... at least not for automatic transmission vehicles. There are a few reasons we don't recommend this.
First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged. The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches. On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown. Again, lightly loaded vehicles would have less of a problem with this, but the general idea of an exhaust brake is to be able to slow larger loads without overheating the standard brake system. It is these types of loads that can cause transmission damage. Obviously, a manual transmission would be free from these types of situations.
Second, whenever you increase exhaust backpressure, you need to make sure that the exhaust valve springs are capable of preventing the pressure in the exhaust system from lifting the exhaust valve from the valve seat, as this would result in a collision with the piston. Normal valve spring seat pressure is 70-75 PSI for NEW valve springs and deteriorates from there. Given that the surface area of the back of the exhaust valve is approximately 1.9 square inches, it would take only 40 PSI of exhaust pressure to lift the valve off the seat, even with new valve springs.
To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation.
I guess i'll use this rarely, but under loaded conditions. Hope i'm GTG.
It's a Van Gogh
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,802
Likes: 1,333
From: Elk Grove, CA
I've never heard of a failure related to use of a decel tune. I've used the decel tune on my DP dozens if not hundreds of times while towing a 26' 5er, with nothing but good results. In my case decel provides enough retardation so brakes are unnecessary on grades of 6%. I've seen no increase in trans temp, and my trans is not exactly fresh either. But my load is not huge (never weighed it 
) a giant load might be a different issue. And might toast a stock 4R100 anyway.
I think the person who wrote that was thinking way, way too much.
) a giant load might be a different issue. And might toast a stock 4R100 anyway.I think the person who wrote that was thinking way, way too much.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,549
Likes: 14
From: Payson, AZ
It really boils down to the last sentence and not how you restrict the exhaust for engine braking.
"To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation."
"To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation."
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
As much as I would love to say there is an issue with it... other then the fact I think its a waste of a setting there is little if any chance of damaging anything.
I ran one for years by SP Diesel that was controled via the cruise buttons, it was slick as hell. But once I added the 1.15 housing I sold it.
I ran one for years by SP Diesel that was controled via the cruise buttons, it was slick as hell. But once I added the 1.15 housing I sold it.
PREMIUM SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,863
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From: Hoschton,GA
I just got my DP tunes hooked up including "Decel" and was searching around the internet and found PHP doesn't offer it saying it can be unsafe under larger loads. Anyone with experience good or bad? Of course I see this right after I got it. Here's from their website.....
Do you offer a "decel" or "exhaust brake" calibration? Simply put, no, we don't because it goes against our business philosophy which, in part, is to provide safe, reliable products to our customers.
For those who don't know, this is a calibration that uses the EBV (Exhaust Backpressure Valve) as a makeshift exhaust brake. While this setup may work reasonably well for lightly loaded vehicles, we generally do not recommend this type of calibration... at least not for automatic transmission vehicles. There are a few reasons we don't recommend this.
First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged. The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches. On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown. Again, lightly loaded vehicles would have less of a problem with this, but the general idea of an exhaust brake is to be able to slow larger loads without overheating the standard brake system. It is these types of loads that can cause transmission damage. Obviously, a manual transmission would be free from these types of situations.
Second, whenever you increase exhaust backpressure, you need to make sure that the exhaust valve springs are capable of preventing the pressure in the exhaust system from lifting the exhaust valve from the valve seat, as this would result in a collision with the piston. Normal valve spring seat pressure is 70-75 PSI for NEW valve springs and deteriorates from there. Given that the surface area of the back of the exhaust valve is approximately 1.9 square inches, it would take only 40 PSI of exhaust pressure to lift the valve off the seat, even with new valve springs.
To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation.
I guess i'll use this rarely, but under loaded conditions. Hope i'm GTG.
Do you offer a "decel" or "exhaust brake" calibration? Simply put, no, we don't because it goes against our business philosophy which, in part, is to provide safe, reliable products to our customers.
For those who don't know, this is a calibration that uses the EBV (Exhaust Backpressure Valve) as a makeshift exhaust brake. While this setup may work reasonably well for lightly loaded vehicles, we generally do not recommend this type of calibration... at least not for automatic transmission vehicles. There are a few reasons we don't recommend this.
First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged. The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches. On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown. Again, lightly loaded vehicles would have less of a problem with this, but the general idea of an exhaust brake is to be able to slow larger loads without overheating the standard brake system. It is these types of loads that can cause transmission damage. Obviously, a manual transmission would be free from these types of situations.
Second, whenever you increase exhaust backpressure, you need to make sure that the exhaust valve springs are capable of preventing the pressure in the exhaust system from lifting the exhaust valve from the valve seat, as this would result in a collision with the piston. Normal valve spring seat pressure is 70-75 PSI for NEW valve springs and deteriorates from there. Given that the surface area of the back of the exhaust valve is approximately 1.9 square inches, it would take only 40 PSI of exhaust pressure to lift the valve off the seat, even with new valve springs.
To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation.
I guess i'll use this rarely, but under loaded conditions. Hope i'm GTG.
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Custom tuning for 7.3l, 6.0l, 6.4l,6.7l, Ecoboost,
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 406
Likes: 5
From: Fox Island, WA
WA_PSD, I am sorry you have been grossly misinformed. Jody R&D'd this tune for several months before letting it out to the public. It was developed and tested on my 2003 Excursion. Never in over 4 years has anyone had a failure due to this tune. I believe we would have heard about it by now if it was unsafe. Searching this subject will only show you one source whom claims it's destruction with no proof. So you understand, nothing that is done in the tune is any different then when you buy an aftermarket exhaust brake with the pac-lock system for the 99 and newer trucks. Jody is just commanding this to be done thru the PCM. Yes all those things talked about needing to be accounted for,have been. You make way more back pressure during 1/2 to full throttle than you do in our decel tune. I hope this has given you some peace of mind. If you have anymore questions feel free to call Jody. You are also welcome to call John Wood. He is the one who Jody wrote it for originally. Diane
Thanks for the response.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 406
Likes: 5
From: Fox Island, WA
As much as I would love to say there is an issue with it... other then the fact I think its a waste of a setting there is little if any chance of damaging anything.
I ran one for years by SP Diesel that was controled via the cruise buttons, it was slick as hell. But once I added the 1.15 housing I sold it.
I ran one for years by SP Diesel that was controled via the cruise buttons, it was slick as hell. But once I added the 1.15 housing I sold it.
Would you say it'a a good tune for a guy like me without the 1.15 housing. (honestly not sure what that is).
Thanks.
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Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,340
Likes: 2
I just got my DP tunes hooked up including "Decel" and was searching around the internet and found PHP doesn't offer it saying it can be unsafe under larger loads. Anyone with experience good or bad? Of course I see this right after I got it. Here's from their website.....
Do you offer a "decel" or "exhaust brake" calibration? Simply put, no, we don't because it goes against our business philosophy which, in part, is to provide safe, reliable products to our customers.
For those who don't know, this is a calibration that uses the EBV (Exhaust Backpressure Valve) as a makeshift exhaust brake. While this setup may work reasonably well for lightly loaded vehicles, we generally do not recommend this type of calibration... at least not for automatic transmission vehicles. There are a few reasons we don't recommend this.
First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged. The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches. On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown. Again, lightly loaded vehicles would have less of a problem with this, but the general idea of an exhaust brake is to be able to slow larger loads without overheating the standard brake system. It is these types of loads that can cause transmission damage. Obviously, a manual transmission would be free from these types of situations.
Second, whenever you increase exhaust backpressure, you need to make sure that the exhaust valve springs are capable of preventing the pressure in the exhaust system from lifting the exhaust valve from the valve seat, as this would result in a collision with the piston. Normal valve spring seat pressure is 70-75 PSI for NEW valve springs and deteriorates from there. Given that the surface area of the back of the exhaust valve is approximately 1.9 square inches, it would take only 40 PSI of exhaust pressure to lift the valve off the seat, even with new valve springs.
To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation.
I guess i'll use this rarely, but under loaded conditions. Hope i'm GTG.
Do you offer a "decel" or "exhaust brake" calibration? Simply put, no, we don't because it goes against our business philosophy which, in part, is to provide safe, reliable products to our customers.
For those who don't know, this is a calibration that uses the EBV (Exhaust Backpressure Valve) as a makeshift exhaust brake. While this setup may work reasonably well for lightly loaded vehicles, we generally do not recommend this type of calibration... at least not for automatic transmission vehicles. There are a few reasons we don't recommend this.
First, in order to transfer the energy of the moving vehicle to the engine during deceleration, two things must occur: the torque converter must remain locked, and the coast clutch must be engaged. The problem with this is that the coast clutch on a stock transmission only has 3 friction plates, and these are smaller than the standard forward clutches. On 2001 and later transmissions, you also run the possibility of damaging the intermediate sprag or "diode," which will result in an immediate transmission teardown. Again, lightly loaded vehicles would have less of a problem with this, but the general idea of an exhaust brake is to be able to slow larger loads without overheating the standard brake system. It is these types of loads that can cause transmission damage. Obviously, a manual transmission would be free from these types of situations.
Second, whenever you increase exhaust backpressure, you need to make sure that the exhaust valve springs are capable of preventing the pressure in the exhaust system from lifting the exhaust valve from the valve seat, as this would result in a collision with the piston. Normal valve spring seat pressure is 70-75 PSI for NEW valve springs and deteriorates from there. Given that the surface area of the back of the exhaust valve is approximately 1.9 square inches, it would take only 40 PSI of exhaust pressure to lift the valve off the seat, even with new valve springs.
To put it simply, if you plan to use an exhaust brake, either through the use of the EBV or by purchasing an aftermarket stand alone unit, you will need to consider the condition of your transmission and exhaust valve springs in order to ensure safe, reliable operation.
I guess i'll use this rarely, but under loaded conditions. Hope i'm GTG.
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Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
However I can not find anything wrong with the decell tune.
I have never run it, but if it works like my old SP Diesel setup did its not bad. It is no exhaust brake, but it will slow the truck and help hold speeds on long decends.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 406
Likes: 5
From: Fox Island, WA
LOL... Because it is a well known fact I am not a fan of DP tuner...
However I can not find anything wrong with the decell tune.
I have never run it, but if it works like my old SP Diesel setup did its not bad. It is no exhaust brake, but it will slow the truck and help hold speeds on long decends.
However I can not find anything wrong with the decell tune.
I have never run it, but if it works like my old SP Diesel setup did its not bad. It is no exhaust brake, but it will slow the truck and help hold speeds on long decends.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 406
Likes: 5
From: Fox Island, WA
As far as my NEW DP tuner, jury is still out. I don't have much to judge it with though. Could we get some members to purchase several different tuners and do a full report?
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
I might. I was actually a member of the other forum before this one. I have found I like the Koolaid better here and rarely visit there anymore. I have built a great trust with most members here and always get quick responses wether I like them or not.
As far as my NEW DP tuner, jury is still out. I don't have much to judge it with though. Could we get some members to purchase several different tuners and do a full report?
As far as my NEW DP tuner, jury is still out. I don't have much to judge it with though. Could we get some members to purchase several different tuners and do a full report?
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,047
Likes: 10
From: Snohomish, WA
9 ECHO 1
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 12,467
Likes: 58
From: Missouri
I had a DP Tuner for about 6 months and just sold it for a PHP. Nothing personal against DP and I never had any issued. But people who have PHP rant and rave about how theirs is sooo much better. So I had to see for myself. I wouldnt have sold the DP if I had the funds but selling the DP was my money for the PHP.
We will see how it goes.
Thanks for the article link
We will see how it goes.
Thanks for the article link