I'm sorry, but that is like saying, a person who tunes chevy's may not beable to tune a Ford.................
an engine, is an engine, is an engine....
You have ranges published by the oem for timing, A/F mixture, PSI, etc...all of which is e-controlled........
Now if we were talking machine work & parts selection, sure.........
e-tuning is simple.........the results are generic, just as if i took a carb'd engine and figured out the engine runs best when I adjust the valves to 3/4 turn past rocker arm contact.........now try that on 100 different engines and tell me how that works for ya..........yes, it works decent of 98%, 1% is outstanding, 1% is crap..........is it still right for the 98% out there......no, it is a way to get $00 for a half a@#$ job.....nothing more, nothing less.

this is just the "Modern Day Sales Pitch" for what was once known as "Tune-Masters" ...................for $39.95 we'll tune any car in 30 minutes or less!
Yes, they installed new plugs, points & condensor.......set it up as quick as they could to anywhere in the oem specs & out the door it goes!

 

I am not trying to be an *** but this has got to be one of the worse statements I have read in a long time. A 5.4 mustang engine would not be tuned the same way a 5.4 F150 engine would be. **** if this was true then the guys on the NASCAR circuit would not need the entire team of engine builders as they could all do the same thing with the same engine.

Every engine is going to be a little bit different even if it is in the same model truck or car. The same person is not putting together every single engine that rolls off the line with the exact same parts there fore they will all have differences.

 

I can nearly guarantee you that two engines coming down the line will not perform exactly the same. Even an SAE certified motor has a 1% margin of error and Ford doesn't SAE certify many engines. Manufacturing tolerance issues, tool head wear as well as different break-in procedures will create two engines that run differently. Also take into account the different qualities of fuel throughout the country, the difference in altitude, humidity, driving style, cylinder wear, torque convertor efficiency and a bunch of other factors and you will see that a custom tune is definitely worth the money.

Canned tunes get the job done, but by necessity they are conservative to provide adequate performance to match the general engine parameters throughout the country.

 

Hey...who invited this ^^^^ guy!

 

I did !!!!!!!!

 

Ha! I have 66 dyno tune pulls on one car. I know a thing or two about tuning! I have done canned and custom. For the money I would always recommend the custom tune when the budget allows.

 

Actually, street tuning (actual driving conditions) is the best way to tune a vehicle. Even when compared to a dyno you can put a load on.

Dyno tuning is better than email tunes though, for sure.

Well, that's statement is actually absolutely correct. Just because a person can tune a Ford 4.6L Mustang doesn't mean he can tune a Z06 Corvette.

Yep, but it starts getting different when you start talking about custom tuning an engine, vs a different engine, vs a different engine.

Not a lot of guys can custom tune the Gen 2 Lightnings, and just because a person can, doesn't mean that same person can tune a 4.6 Mustang or a 2010 SRT8 426 Hemi twin turbo Challenger pushing more than 1000HP.

Stewart

 

You are talking about a $100k engine that is replaced before every single race, with up to $1million of test & evaluation equipment to get the most hp and make it live for 500 miles..........no different than a top fuel dragster....designed, tested and built to live for 6 seconds and be rebuilt in 20 minutes inbetween rounds................................not mass production products........(racing engines) one that you can stick a butter knife in between the piston rings & cyl walls that has oil as thin as what goes in a tranny, as compared to a (production) CNC built and computer/human assembled, 200k mile daily run of the mill engine....AF ratio is still af ratio...........
an air/fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1 is techinically considered optimum for MPG & HP/TQ (whether its a porshe, F150 or a dump truck) but for those who prefer more HP/TQ, you richen up the fuel mixture, up to 14:1, even 13:1 (depending on the vehicles ECM programming, cam timing, etc) during heavy throttle situations, leaving the idle mixture & part throttle at 14:7 for smog testing.

In the old days, you simply changed fuel jets, adjust air/mixture screws to achiev the same thing...the difference, today it is necessary to run the car on the dyno so you can see (through data logging) the entire effect throughout the rpm & load spectrum.......where we use to listen, drive & feel, today you can "see" through datalogging detonation caused from too much ignition advance..........an engine no matter what vehicle it is in, no matter what cam profile it has, no matter what displacement it has, still has to have a correct air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, etc....which is all any tuner is adjusting and those parameters have all ready been set by the factory................yes, the factory.

Now lets talk about what they are actually modifying........................
they adjust the air/fuel mixture (nothing new here)
they adjust initial ignition timing & advance (Hmmm, nothing new here either)
Increase transmission line pressure & asjust shift points.....(Hmm, use to do that by changing springs, etc....now because the tranny is e-controlled, we can do that with data loggers as well)
They allow you to access the mfg adjustible ranges for
upping the speed limiter
changing tire sizes

With regards to say a mustnag engine versus an F150, are they the same, no!
why, different cams, weight, etc....but the same process is used to adjust these same parameters...........just means you can run a little more ignition advance because the car weighs less, its not towing anything, etc., etc.

Many tuners will claim specialized techniques they use for allowing more inginition advance by richening up the fuel mixture to cool the combustion chamber............new, wow....the same thing that every hot-rodder has done since the 20's when we starting racing cars/trucks, etc........and in the 70's when high compression/cylinder psi engines were still very prominent & gas quality hit lows (from 105 octane to 97), a new thing was created.....water vapor & water injection.....yes, both used a 50/50 mix of alcohol/water, the water vapor injector was basically a mayonaise jar with a vacume line hooked to hit, sucking in the water vapor at the base of th carb, where the water injection, sprayed a mist into the top of the intake manifold at the base of the carb..........

Hers also the difference of today's vehicle owners.............
I read/glance/see the thousands of vehicle owners who are apprehensive to "Change their spark plugs"........prior to 1980's, I cannot ever recall hearing anyone say that, and yes, there were vehicles with aluminum heads, steel sparkplugs and no antiseize (up until the early 80's)...the only time you would hear someone looking or questioning if they could do something on a car/truck was rebuilding the engine, transmssion, differential, etc..and yes, sometimes we broke plugs or cross threaded them too.......but used a variety ot techniques to help up fix the problem....instead of purchasing "Specialized Lubricants", we mixed 50/50 kerosene(mineral sprits) and tranny oil to acomplish the same thing........gues what, a few years ago I think it was the univ of Miss did a study of the name brand penetrates versus the kerosene/tranny oil mix, guess what, after spending $100k of federal grant money, they determined the Kersoene/tranny oil mix performed as well of bette than any of the commercial products!...I guess the 10 years hot rodders worked on their vehicles and id this mix as being the best (and commonly known) was right.

Because of nothing more than marketing hype, and a change of mindset- "Just call the guy to fix it", there is a belief or pre-set understanding that the average person cannot tune a vehicle............given the lack of even the most basic understanding and marketing that has occurred during the last 20 years, I'm surprised that we as a general public, haven't come to the conclusion that you need to be an ASTM certfiied technician to change a tire.......oh, wait, my brother in law came to me about 6 months ago with their BMW and was concerned about if it was ok to change a flat tire on the car because it has a TMS system on it........................
Come on everybody, this is not rocket science....if it was 99% of the "tuners" would not exists...it just takes a little patient, learning (basic electr/mech) skillsets, basic tools (which yes a PC & software is considered basic tools for todays vehicles) and you are goo to go...with a little supervision & common sence!

 

Agreed, AF is AF and 14.7 is what you are shooting for. So the real question is, does a canned tune achieve and maintain a 14.7 AF ratio across the entire rpm range under load? I will bet you it does not because a canned tune cannot foresee and adjust injector duty cycles, pulse width, spark timing, advance, etc. Its just a generic parameter that is close and probably a bit rich to be on the safe side. With a custom tune, the tuner can make adjustments to the AF ratio/spark, etc in 50-100rpm increments throughout the entire rpm range based on said vehicles operating state, condition and fuel quality.

That being said, as Stewart pointed out one must find a Ford Mod tuner to work on Ford engines, I would not let a Chevy LS tuner tune a Hemi or vice versa. Totally different operating systems and experience needed.

 

.......................................

 

I completely agree!!!! just given the date mfg differences, for any "tuner" for any vehicles to not 1st look at the entire engine operating band befor making adjustents, well, in the ol days, there were "Expert Tuners" who would do the same thing, throw it on a dyno and well, you know.....either the engine has a "failure" or you get it back, it runs like crap or just a little better for a short while and in 10-30,000 miles, you start having problems.....

The difference between someone being an engine tuner & someone "Playing Engine Tuner"

 

Do your own research, sort through the bias, consider carefully what you want, and then buy what makes you feel best about your decision as it's your truck and you that will live with the decison.

If the term "canned" bothers you and you feel like you get something special via email custom tuning, then that's the way to go. If you want to plan a vacation trip to a tuner's facilities and do dyno runs fopr a true custom set of tunes, there are plenty to chose from .... I'ld use Troyers but I'm close enough that a cup of coffee will last through the trip.

I have read a lot here, I still fail to see any evidence that a "custom" tune ordered via email is anything but that tune writer's otherwise standard tune repackaged and sold with a lock to a particular vehicle to the exclusion of all others as "custom". To the contrary, I have seen the admission of one tuner person to just that, but maybe he is alone?

I have never questioned the fact that "tunes" written alongside dyno runs on "that vehicle" are indeed, "custom". I also understand that a tuner such as a SC FP can be programmed to tune a wide variety of vehicles and tune each within parameters specific to that vehicle which it identifies when reading and storing the stock tune file. I also understand that it does NOT tune a Shelby GT500 the same as it tunes my FX4, or Joe's Jeep .... but it will tune each and even provide several tunes and user adjustable inputs. A powerful computor no longer weighs 3,000 pounds nor takes up a whole room.

If my "2007 FX4 5.4 3V Automatic trans 3.55 geared stock tired Scab with cat back" requires tuning much different from the last 458 that same tune writer person wrote tunes for, then likely I either have made a significant series of mods or I have a component(s) . mechanical and/or electrical, that is (are) out of order.

I know .... I do know .... that when "Grogg" set a rock slab on the ground and used a harder rock to chisel out a left wheel before he knew it was a left wheel, and then decided if he had two he could make a cart before he knew what a cart was, that his right wheel may have been some different from his left wheel. I also know that many UAW members have been filmed on camera smoking pot and boozing it up on breaks at Chrysler, but thanks to robotics .... our left and right wheels are closer matches than "Grogg's" were back in the day and vehicles of the same design equipped the same tend to perform the same unless there is a failure of a part or electrical component or other significant differences in operating state, condition and fuel quality.

 

It's a short limb I go out on in making this statement (ok, really no limb at all, I'm standing on flat ground), but there aint no way a person can maintain stoich A/F even when custom tuning.

Not only do ya have to contend with something mechanical that is far from precise in an of itself, much less when compared to another engine (even the exact same engine), but let's face it, from day to day, or even hour to hour, you can't possibly know what the density or barometric pressure will be while the vehicle is heading down the road, whether cruising, at half throttle, or wide open throttle.

But you guys already know that, I know. So why do I bring up the obvious? Because to me, it's obvious a person cannot make a blanket statement that an engine, is an engine, is an engine, thereby implying that because a person can tune one type of engine, that same person can tune any other engine.

Beech, you seem to be pretty damn smart bro. I'm kind of surprised, after reading your posts here, that you would make that assertion.

You mixed your response in with my quote, making it difficult to sift out your response from my quote. I don't have time to try and make sense of it right now. Maybe you can edit the post and separate your response from the quote?

Stewart

 

Ive had both on my 2004 F350 with the 5.4 motor. First was a Superchip 1714, not the greats est like the newer Rd ones but it did what it said, better power, firmer shifts and i could change a few things. I then read all about how much better a 'custom tune' is so i bought a X3 from Five Star and had three tunes sent with it. Did i notice a difference? Hell NO i didn't, all i felt was a lighter wallet! The only good thing is i can ask Mike to change something if i don't like it but the new 'canned tuners' can adjust everything without emailing someone what you want changed, PLUS i cant tune my brothers F150 or my dads diesel if i wanted too because the custom tunes wont allow it. So if i wanted to show my brother how good his F150 would drive i cant, if i wanted to show my dad how bad a$$ his 7.3 would run with a tuner i cant either. The ONLY good thing is if i ever get to take a vacation to go see Mike at Five Star I'm going to have him drive my truck and make me three tunes, this way EVERYTHING will be set to where i want it and all the settings will be 100% perfect for my truck

 

So would you guys say this chip isn't worth the money??

FORD F150 GF Peformance Chip

I'm like the original poster... would like to get some more hp and a little better gas mileage. Not looking into drag racing my truck. I got a 18 foot bass boat and wouldn't mind a little more accelleration and a little better gas mileage.