as a moderator, your talent for rude communication is affirmed...

California Vehicle Code Division 12 Chapter 5 Article 2, then read the appedices & supporting references.....

This also isn't something new, I can remember being taught this back when I was a jr in High school in Drivers ed....yes, they use to teach drivers ed in high school & it was part of the Hygiene requirement!

Give me a few more hours and I will check with DOT in the morning for the spec reference.........

With regards to the clas 8 trucks, if certified by the factory, it can be used, but we are talking about "universal" replacement pipe right?

 

Nothing at all rude about his post, and YOU were the one that said they were illegal by Federal Regulation, so it's up to YOU to prove your point. So far, you haven't been able to do that......


I for one, will not go and look up all the "reference's" in your post. It's up to you to post the relevant material......

P.S. Calling out a Moderator is not a very good thing to do around here. Just saying..........

 

I don't know exactly what in my post you consider to be rude, but please contact an FTE Administrator if you have problems with the Moderation Staff.

Here are two:

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: IB Tim
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: Carlene

Well, I quickly Googled that and found (which isn't my responsibility I might add):

California Vehicle Code Division 12 Chapter 5 Article 2 Table of Contents

Went and read a few entries, but didn't find anything about flexible exhaust pipes (much less about their being illegal).

Even went so far as to search their sites (with their own search engine) for "flexible" and "flexible exhaust" with nothing relevant returned.

Couldn't find any links on that page to any sort of appendices or supporting references.

Even if I *had* found something, there are still the other 49 states (nothing much coming from California surprises me) since the claim was they're "illega (sic) in all 50 states."

OK, we'll wait.

BTW I also took Driver's Education in high school, I don't remember there being any sort of vehicle repair or modification or maintenance being taught in that class but it's not germane to the topic and therefore isn't worth discussing.

 

Gee's guys thanks for the replies. These internet forums amuse me. Any way my kit would be totally illegal in CA. as are many other things we do on the right coast compared to the left coast. Furthermore I work at the GM Milford Mi. proving grounds and I can guaranty GM uses the woven mesh flex pipe with the flanges on each end. I cannot say for certain but I would guess some of these vehicles are of CA blood. They are anything from customer vehicles to 10 yr out technology.

Jim<O</O

 

Man I can not believe all this hate and discontent..
As far as flex pipe goes, it would be the weakest link but that doesn't make it illegal unless of course it's leaking. And yes it does come on all class 8 trucks I have ever seen, and been around them sense before I had a drivers license and that's been 44 years. Except for a few models most are replaced with standard flex tube. They just cut it to length and install so find it hard to believe it is any more DOT approved than any other form of exhaust pipe. And have you ever seen one of the Excalibur's they used to make back in the 70's? Custom body on a Corvette frame with flex tube exhaust coming out of the hood?

 

Yes, I can confirm this....2000 Model Pontic GTP my friend had, the piece you're talking about, the flange broke randomly....

Not saying it is LIMITED to them, but FWD cars are all I've ever seen them on...Again, not specifically limiting their use on FWD only....Just what I've seen...

 

No hate intended or implied, just be able to provide supporting, verifiable documentation from credible sources as to your claims of fact (especially regarding the law).

This mentality of "cite your sources" has been part of Internet culture seemingly forever, I remember seeing it in 1990 when I first got on it and is nothing new.

 

ok lets try it agian...

1. in the section titled modifications, and muffler and tips, they all reference back to a single section/sub-secton that states, components include "includes all pipes, connectors" and that these components must meet/comply with "mfg specs" (they are referring to oem)........BTW-and the EPA under their parts certification program (smog), references these same statements as well, .......and it further states that any components (part) modifications (referencing back to these sames sections) that are different (my words paraphrasing) from oem specs (including prevention of leaks) must be certified by the retailer, seller, installer...........and to do so is a misdmr.
so what does this really mean, lets take a Honda Civic for a simple example....
After the exhaust manifold there is a flex pipe (because of the transverse engine mount) that connects to a solid pipe, then to a cat, then to another rigid pipe, then connect to a muffler, then to a rigid tailpipe.....Now, to replace the flex pipe with a rigid/solid pipe would 1. not be to mfg specs, 2. eventuall break because of the engine tq stress & 3. be citable under CVC as an illegal modification....which is not designed for the intended use and because the design is outside of the mfg specs, by its presence creates a safety issues (exhaust leak)...........now, does that make sense and provide clarification? Meaning, you cannot install a flex pipe where the oem spec calls for a rigid pipe and vice versa.

Next, states are not allowed by federal regs to create their own vehicle safety standards, but they must adopt the fed regs and provide an enforcement mechanism.......so even if we stated every related federal reg regarding this, it would have little validity to any at the state level since, the wording whould be modified to comply with legislative mandates and of course would be different in every state......
This is no different than changing out a cat to a high performance unit or removing it all together befor the vehicle is 8 years old and has 80k miles......the states do not decide this, the fed regs establish the requirement that the states adopt..........now I know you are familiar with that- right? This is no different.....I appoligise if I made the assumption that every person I know (literally) in the almost 60 years I have been on this earth knows about this (maybe not the specific cites, but knows you just can't do this without jepardizing your safety and/or getting a citation).......

and with regard to the rude correspondence....

The polite response would be, "Beechkid, do you have or could you post the regs you are referring to"

 

"Forums like this are often a great venue for spreading BS & hearsay but presented as fact.

I personally hate that, and don't like to see FTE contributing to it.

Hence, since you're making a Statement of Fact, we're asking you to back that up with credible & verifiable sources.

Just as if you were turning in a Research Paper to the college prof; at the end, you have the Bibliography in which you list your sources of information presented in your paper.

Telling the prof to go look up & verify those claims himself will get you a big, fat F on the paper"

This is rude in very sense of communication....especially with the limited posting

in essence, the moderator violated the forums rules by using terms such as "BS" and "Hearsay" ie, stating in conclusion that I am lying..........if such correspondence was required,, per forum rules it was to be made in a PM.

 

In the state drivers handbook you would not see it, but most if not all states in their drivers training courses require you to be able to check your vehicles fluids, change a tire, etc. CDL programs (commercial drivers licence training programs) are much more stringent and get into much greater depth in this area.

 

"Next, states are not allowed by federal regs to create their own vehicle safety standards, but they must adopt the fed regs and provide an enforcement mechanism..."
Under some regulatory schemes, states may require more stringent requirements but not less stringent requirements than, for example, FMCSA regulations governing interstate trucking. They can make their own rules for intrastate trucking. Under CARB, CA has led other states in emissions requirements that are more stringent than Federal requirements. Where CA goes, some states are sure to follow.

 

Someone better tell Chevy because I personally have worked on a few of their front-wheel-drive cars and they have a braided-stainless-steel and possibly rubber thingamabob under there right after the y-pipe and it's flexible

 

It may be flexible, but if you cut off the mesh it has a solid piece if corrugated tubing inside it, from flange to flange.

 

I personally don't find it rude when someone asks to give their proof for a valid argument. If no proof is thus given, it can be assumed their argument is then invalid and as such, dismissed.

Ctubutis was in no way being disrespectful towards you, but I find it kind of funny you openly say that you felt he was calling you a lier.

If you feel so offended as to another persons disagreement on the internet, well, you better call your provider and have them shut off your service because disagreements are going to happen, regardless if it's through a computer screen, a telephone, or face to face.

If you want flex exhaust on your vehicle, then put it on there. If you don't, then don't. In my opinion, it's a **** poor way to run exhaust on anything less than a dump truck and should be avoided and pronounced sacrilegious as if you held up a cross to an unholy abomination.

Custom fab up your exhaust manifold or whatever your doing and go to an exhaust shop and get them to give you some mandrel bends and say DONE already.

 

This is the best reply I've heard to OP Jim's question. There are only two reasons why flex pipe is used in OEM applications: 1) OTR tractor manufacturers developed comfort cabs, but stuck with the notion that big trucks just GOTTA have stacks (I'll refrain from getting into the pickups-with-stacks discussion, 'cause if you can't say anything nice...), and 2) with FWD cars, it's just a necessary evil until the engines are mounted Toronado-style again, which ain't gonna happen.

I understand Jim's desire to use the braided flex pipe to make life easier, but in a RWD car ('specially one that might have solid motor mounts) I think the finished product would be better if there were a lot of planning, routing, cutting, and welding of some solid pipe.

My 2¢...
Pat