SG II Accuracy?
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: KCMO
For the guys that have a 10deg or less EOT/ECT hot delta, I'd be curious if your cold soak numbers are identical or off a couple. I'm not trying to convince myself that my oil cooler is not plugged up some, I'm just interested in dissecting the data to see if we're all working with the same baseline.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Whittier, CA
I've had two different Edge Insights, and neither one gave me exactly identical values after a cold soak. Just so you guys have a comparison. I have considered it a matter of where the sensor is placed. The ECT is rather exposed on the front of the engine, while the EOT is buried under filter bodies. I think you all are worrying about nothing.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: KCMO
I just went back and went through the thread again. You're right amdriven2liv, you did provide those before, thank you.
I might have missed skimming back through the thread, but what is your heat soak delta?
And I'm not "worrying about nothing" over this. If you use two data sets to determine/diagnose an issue, you first need to make sure those data sets have accurate information.
And on this topic, are we worrying too much over this delta? I understand why the 15 max delta is there. But a temperature differential shouldn't be as much of a problem as a max tempertature. Yes, the delta shows that the oil cooler is not working as efficiently as it is designed to, but 200 deg oil is not a catastrophic area.
Am I thinking about this incorrectly?
I might have missed skimming back through the thread, but what is your heat soak delta?
And I'm not "worrying about nothing" over this. If you use two data sets to determine/diagnose an issue, you first need to make sure those data sets have accurate information.
And on this topic, are we worrying too much over this delta? I understand why the 15 max delta is there. But a temperature differential shouldn't be as much of a problem as a max tempertature. Yes, the delta shows that the oil cooler is not working as efficiently as it is designed to, but 200 deg oil is not a catastrophic area.
Am I thinking about this incorrectly?
I'm hitting easy street
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,395
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From: Central Oregon
I drive the same route home from work every day.
When I get to the interstate, my engine is warmed up.
As I get on to the highway, my ECT will be 188-190. My EOT will be at 194*
Cruising up the highway half way home, my temp will be 190*-192* (there is a little rise in the road for a very long bridge) and my EOT can reach 197*
This is during temps of around 50*-58*
During summer during this same stretch, ECT will get to 195* EOT will see 201* outside temps of 85-90*.
Don't know if this helps, but you can see I watch those stupid temps too much. I can't say how often I actually watch the speed. Oh, and my speed is right around 60 mph, traffic flows at that speed.
When I get to the interstate, my engine is warmed up.
As I get on to the highway, my ECT will be 188-190. My EOT will be at 194*
Cruising up the highway half way home, my temp will be 190*-192* (there is a little rise in the road for a very long bridge) and my EOT can reach 197*
This is during temps of around 50*-58*
During summer during this same stretch, ECT will get to 195* EOT will see 201* outside temps of 85-90*.
Don't know if this helps, but you can see I watch those stupid temps too much. I can't say how often I actually watch the speed. Oh, and my speed is right around 60 mph, traffic flows at that speed.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Scio, OR
One thing we really don't know is what Ford's specified tolerance is for these sensors. Is it +/- 1%, or +/- 5%? We really don't know.
We also don't know what a 2 degree error at 32 degrees translates to at 190 degrees? Is it linear and still 2 degree's or is it non linear and 2 degrees at 32 becomes 5 or 10 degrees at 190. It may even be like Bill says and it's all about the difference in locations, though after a cold soak, unless the ambient temp is currently changing a lot (like warming up in the morning), I wouldn't think so.
The only way to know these things is to take a significant sample (50 or so, maybe) temp sensors for oil and water, put them in a lab setting with precise measuring equipment, and find out. Or just not worry about it, I guess.
We also don't know what a 2 degree error at 32 degrees translates to at 190 degrees? Is it linear and still 2 degree's or is it non linear and 2 degrees at 32 becomes 5 or 10 degrees at 190. It may even be like Bill says and it's all about the difference in locations, though after a cold soak, unless the ambient temp is currently changing a lot (like warming up in the morning), I wouldn't think so.
The only way to know these things is to take a significant sample (50 or so, maybe) temp sensors for oil and water, put them in a lab setting with precise measuring equipment, and find out. Or just not worry about it, I guess.
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Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,398
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From: Whittier, CA
What I am saying is that 2° is insignificant. You can bet these sensors are not better than 1% tolerance. Which would be 2° at common engine temps.
A 15° delta is not an absolute either. If you have 13° delta it does not mean you are okay, but if you have 17° you are not okay. Ford doesn't tell us all the logic that goes into their own oil cooler efficiency warning. But from experience I know it is a lot more than a simple temp differential. I've hit 15° difference many times, and no warning light.
In the conditions you described, I would be at 4°-6° generally. A little more when I am climbing hills. You probably have some clogging, but you are not critical yet.
A 15° delta is not an absolute either. If you have 13° delta it does not mean you are okay, but if you have 17° you are not okay. Ford doesn't tell us all the logic that goes into their own oil cooler efficiency warning. But from experience I know it is a lot more than a simple temp differential. I've hit 15° difference many times, and no warning light.
On Saturday I did an 80 mile highway trip, so I think I had a pretty well stabilized heat soak.
For the guys that have a 10deg or less EOT/ECT hot delta, I'd be curious if your cold soak numbers are identical or off a couple. I'm not trying to convince myself that my oil cooler is not plugged up some, I'm just interested in dissecting the data to see if we're all working with the same baseline.
For the guys that have a 10deg or less EOT/ECT hot delta, I'd be curious if your cold soak numbers are identical or off a couple. I'm not trying to convince myself that my oil cooler is not plugged up some, I'm just interested in dissecting the data to see if we're all working with the same baseline.
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: KCMO
I agree with you bpounds that 2 deg is not significant, provided that we are not steadfast on the 15 deg differential. That's what I guess I'm seeing from people....if your delta is over 15 most are instantly advocating to change the oil cooler. Which I believe, based on my limited database, is wrong. Especially if we concede that the information that we are being given has a margin of error in it.
Like I stated earlier, I'm not overly concerned with 200 deg oil temp irregardless of the delta. Frankly, I'm a little more concerned with why my ECT never gets beyond mid 180s. I know from the 7.3l world one recommendation was to change out the 193 tstat (or maybe it was 196?) for a 203 tstat as the engine ran more efficiently at that operating temp. Obviously running too hot is bad, but running too cool isn't necessarily desirable either.
Like I stated earlier, I'm not overly concerned with 200 deg oil temp irregardless of the delta. Frankly, I'm a little more concerned with why my ECT never gets beyond mid 180s. I know from the 7.3l world one recommendation was to change out the 193 tstat (or maybe it was 196?) for a 203 tstat as the engine ran more efficiently at that operating temp. Obviously running too hot is bad, but running too cool isn't necessarily desirable either.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,398
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From: Whittier, CA
When I evalutate my own truck, I am a lot more interested in how fast the EOT recovers after a hard pull, than I am with the temp differential. To me that indicates how well heat is being transferred from oil to coolant.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2011
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For example, could those "other factors" include a wrench lite with the delta code and a radiator packed with squished butterflies ?
But if it is in fact diagnosed as a clogged cooler, the tech must assume the temperature trend is only going higher in a hurry
Ford assumes you are only going to see the wrench lite, never the actual temps.
But if it is in fact diagnosed as a clogged cooler, the tech must assume the temperature trend is only going higher in a hurry
Ford assumes you are only going to see the wrench lite, never the actual temps.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 19,056
Likes: 235
From: Saratoga Springs,UT
Guys Im thinking if you get upto a 15* spread its not the end of the world
Just remember the Old FORD Spec was 20* diff
When I had a Plugged oil cooler I had a Spread of 25* all the time everytime I would pull into my driveway 25* spread
unless there was a short trip and didnt get a thuro heat soak But when I cut that oil cooler open it was plugged solid
Id say if you Have a 15* spread its time to start planing your next move And then when ya hit 20* Time to Take some ACTION
at 20* the spread is probably big enough that the little glitches are taken into consideration
And Feel FREE to push your spread even farther apart I would love to know at what spread the EGR Cooler or Oil Cooler Lets Go AT
Nobodys saying you have to change it at 15*
Heres the oil cooler cut apart with the 25* ECT vs EOT Spread I had the Round EGR Cooler it never Burst
Just remember the Old FORD Spec was 20* diff
When I had a Plugged oil cooler I had a Spread of 25* all the time everytime I would pull into my driveway 25* spread
unless there was a short trip and didnt get a thuro heat soak But when I cut that oil cooler open it was plugged solid
Id say if you Have a 15* spread its time to start planing your next move And then when ya hit 20* Time to Take some ACTION
at 20* the spread is probably big enough that the little glitches are taken into consideration
And Feel FREE to push your spread even farther apart I would love to know at what spread the EGR Cooler or Oil Cooler Lets Go AT
Nobodys saying you have to change it at 15* Heres the oil cooler cut apart with the 25* ECT vs EOT Spread I had the Round EGR Cooler it never Burst
Freshman User
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 41
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From: South Carolina
I don't know if this helps, but I just changed my thermostat because the scan guage was never reaching 190*. Put in one from Ford and now I see the coolant temp hit 190 EXACTLY then watch the temps drop a few degrees indicating its opening. I use the FwT guage by the way.