So sad, got stranded today
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 1
From: Wagener, SC
Found a place to do it for $113.00, which included the 28.8 mileage. Baby is home!
I won't have time to look at it today, but I'll be right on it ASAP. I'll update as I can.
I won't have time to look at it today, but I'll be right on it ASAP. I'll update as I can.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,575
Likes: 5
From: Broken Arrow , OK
Something I was wondering about your truck . Do you have the replacement type of terminals that bolt onto the wire ends? They all bolt onto the battery posts, but , there are replacement types that when you cut the old terminal off you strip the wire back and bolt the new replacement terminals on. If so those are junk to start with and dont do much but cause another joint in your circuit to be available to fail. I would get rid of those wires and buy some new ones with the terminals crimped/soldered onto them. Even Walmart sells them for $4-$6 each. Be sure your posts are all shined up with a wire brush and the same for the inside of the terminals. Make sure your grounds are all tight too. The battery should be grounded to the motor and there should be a motor to chasis and chasis to body connection for the grounds. Look the positive cable over that goes to the starter from the starter relay for any bare spots or shorts in the insulation too. Might consider throwing $6 at it as well.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Wagener, SC
Everything looks like quality, crimped cables. I'll take a bunch of pics tomorrow when I can, and start looking over the obvious points of failure.
I'll let you know what I see.
I'll let you know what I see.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
My 95 B2300 did the same thing to me today. Turned out it was just a loose connection on the positive battery terminal, and there was mild corrosion due to the looseness.
It happened at a gas station, and someone happened to come along with a cresent and wire brush, so I was back underway in just a couple minutes.
I had managed to wiggle the terminal enough to get some juice thru, so I was about to just give the truck a shove when the guy offered a wrench.
Only truck I don't keep a few tools in, as it doesn't have a toolbox on it...... Yet.
It happened at a gas station, and someone happened to come along with a cresent and wire brush, so I was back underway in just a couple minutes.
I had managed to wiggle the terminal enough to get some juice thru, so I was about to just give the truck a shove when the guy offered a wrench.
Only truck I don't keep a few tools in, as it doesn't have a toolbox on it...... Yet.
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
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From: Wagener, SC
So I'm trying to understand this starter issue that I described in my first post of this thread.
Here is the starter that the "books" indicate is the right one for my year/engine:
Buy Worldwide Starter P3180 at Advance Auto Parts
This is the starter that was removed, and I ended up purchasing and installing:
Buy Worldwide Starter P3205S at Advance Auto Parts
Ok, so what's going on here? How can I tell if there are any other surprises in store for me when buying parts for this 85 F-150? What makes the starters different? Is there anything else I need to look at to correctly identify this engine year?
As soon as the sun warms things up a little today, I'm gonna get under the hood and find the electrical issue that stranded me.
Here is the starter that the "books" indicate is the right one for my year/engine:
Buy Worldwide Starter P3180 at Advance Auto Parts
This is the starter that was removed, and I ended up purchasing and installing:
Buy Worldwide Starter P3205S at Advance Auto Parts
Ok, so what's going on here? How can I tell if there are any other surprises in store for me when buying parts for this 85 F-150? What makes the starters different? Is there anything else I need to look at to correctly identify this engine year?
As soon as the sun warms things up a little today, I'm gonna get under the hood and find the electrical issue that stranded me.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 39
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Looks like someone "updated" the starter...
The second starter is a planetary gear reduction starter from a later model and gets it's main power directly from the battery.
...See how the 'snout' is not centered on the motor case?
I bought one of these for my 460 when I swapped to a late model transmission and flywheel.
The old style starters were destroying themselves on the new ring gear.
I needed to take the old starter cable and connect it directly to the battery and then run a new 10Ga. wire from the solenoid on the fender to the solenoid on the starter.
The instructions that came with my PMGR starter warned against jumpering the power at the starter.
The second starter is a planetary gear reduction starter from a later model and gets it's main power directly from the battery.
...See how the 'snout' is not centered on the motor case?
I bought one of these for my 460 when I swapped to a late model transmission and flywheel.
The old style starters were destroying themselves on the new ring gear.
I needed to take the old starter cable and connect it directly to the battery and then run a new 10Ga. wire from the solenoid on the fender to the solenoid on the starter.
The instructions that came with my PMGR starter warned against jumpering the power at the starter.
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 1
From: Wagener, SC
Looks like someone "updated" the starter...
The second starter is a planetary gear reduction starter from a later model and gets it's main power directly from the battery.
...See how the 'snout' is not centered on the motor case?
I bought one of these for my 460 when I swapped to a late model transmission and flywheel.
The old style starters were destroying themselves on the new ring gear.
I needed to take the old starter cable and connect it directly to the battery and then run a new 10Ga. wire from the solenoid on the fender to the solenoid on the starter.
The instructions that came with my PMGR starter warned against jumpering the power at the starter.
The second starter is a planetary gear reduction starter from a later model and gets it's main power directly from the battery.
...See how the 'snout' is not centered on the motor case?
I bought one of these for my 460 when I swapped to a late model transmission and flywheel.
The old style starters were destroying themselves on the new ring gear.
I needed to take the old starter cable and connect it directly to the battery and then run a new 10Ga. wire from the solenoid on the fender to the solenoid on the starter.
The instructions that came with my PMGR starter warned against jumpering the power at the starter.
This is interesting!
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 39
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I did it because the old style starter wouldn't work with the flywheel/ring gear I needed to put in the Zf5.
(I went through 5 of them in 6 months)
I laid it out in my post...
1)Starter cable connected directly to battery.
2)Fender solenoid connected to starter solenoid by a 10Ga. wire.
(this may be overkill, but the pulldown spike of the starter solenoid tested at 41A)
Doing it this way also takes most of the load off the fender mounted solenoid.
I haven't had it fail since I did this last summer.
(I went through 5 of them in 6 months)
I laid it out in my post...
1)Starter cable connected directly to battery.
2)Fender solenoid connected to starter solenoid by a 10Ga. wire.
(this may be overkill, but the pulldown spike of the starter solenoid tested at 41A)
Doing it this way also takes most of the load off the fender mounted solenoid.
I haven't had it fail since I did this last summer.
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Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 1
From: Wagener, SC
I did it because the old style starter wouldn't work with the flywheel/ring gear I needed to put in the Zf5.
(I went through 5 of them in 6 months)
I laid it out in my post...
1)Starter cable connected directly to battery.
2)Fender solenoid connected to starter solenoid by a 10Ga. wire.
(this may be overkill, but the pulldown spike of the starter solenoid tested at 41A)
Doing it this way also takes most of the load off the fender mounted solenoid.
I haven't had it fail since I did this last summer.
(I went through 5 of them in 6 months)
I laid it out in my post...
1)Starter cable connected directly to battery.
2)Fender solenoid connected to starter solenoid by a 10Ga. wire.
(this may be overkill, but the pulldown spike of the starter solenoid tested at 41A)
Doing it this way also takes most of the load off the fender mounted solenoid.
I haven't had it fail since I did this last summer.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
What you have on there is what is referred to as a Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction starter. It is a real good upgrade on Fords as the old movable pole piece (first starter in your link) draws a huge number of amps. This is why it will burn up the Chinese starter solenoids. Like Jim says, heavy cable goes to the battery side of the solenoid, small wire from the starter's top mounted solenoid to the other side of the fender mounted solenoid. For anyone looking to do this with an automatic, just tell the parts guy you want one for a '90 Lincoln Town Car 5.0L this one fits 4.9L, 5.0L and 5.8L. Archion has a good list of that style starter for all applications. I have one of his on my truck with the 7.5L.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Coastal-SC
I don't know if changing from the old type Ford starter to the "upgraded" one where the solenoid is built into the started is an improvement. I have owned 7 Fords that utilized the firewall mounted solenoid and learn a few basic facts that if you keep a strong battery with cables with little or no corrosion and the starter is in good shape-then it should turn the motor enough to start. The solenoid tends to be the weak link in the starter system and I would rather have it on the firewall than below the motor. At least if it fails, I can bypass it with a screw driver instead of having to crawl under the vehicle to remove the starter to fix the solenoid-JMHO
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 39
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Like I said, there wasn't a moveable pole starter that worked with my ring gear.
The gear reduction starter also solved my solenoid issues.
All my 2Ga. cables were new with the 3G alternator swap.
All were coated with Noalox conductive corrosion protectant.
I was still welding fenderwell relays.
Tried Motorcraft, Echlin, Standard, KEM and another brand.
I didn't like the *idea* either, but I LIKE having my truck start every time, and not having to pop the hood, run out and smack the solenoid with a hammer.
BTW, you can still jump it. (the terminals are exposed)
You just have to get underneath to do it...
The gear reduction starter also solved my solenoid issues.
All my 2Ga. cables were new with the 3G alternator swap.
All were coated with Noalox conductive corrosion protectant.
I was still welding fenderwell relays.
Tried Motorcraft, Echlin, Standard, KEM and another brand.
I didn't like the *idea* either, but I LIKE having my truck start every time, and not having to pop the hood, run out and smack the solenoid with a hammer.
BTW, you can still jump it. (the terminals are exposed)
You just have to get underneath to do it...
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
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From: Wagener, SC
Ok, so using the info I got from you guys today, I've determined that my fender solenoid is wired incorrectly for this starter.
Notice that the red wire on the top post, and the heavy gauge black wire both go to the starter. I'll have to move the black wire to the battery post when I go get new cables today. Not saying this was my problem, but it was a PO issue all the same. Fix one thing at a time, right?
Notice that the red wire on the top post, and the heavy gauge black wire both go to the starter. I'll have to move the black wire to the battery post when I go get new cables today. Not saying this was my problem, but it was a PO issue all the same. Fix one thing at a time, right?