Been researching this out today and I thought I'd get some opinions and try to clear my head of it all at the same time, ha.

As many of you know (cause I never seem to shut up about it as of late, lol) I've been debating the powertrain route I wanted to go with on my truck. I had thought I had an answer with the 5.9 Cummins Diesel, but after more research and thinking of how I drive and what things would be like in the real world, I think I found a better option for me.

I think I maybe quite a bit happier with a 390 4v with a Tremec T56.

They seem to get around 300-375 Horsepower and 420ish Torque. Lot better horse power than the Cummins, about the same torque. Now granite the cummins is low end torque but that's where it gets into the way I drive.


This is my business truck. It will work and it will move heavy things. It will not be towing that much, maybe once or twice in it's life if I'm honest. I will probably never come close to reaching the payload limit with it, even if I move a bunch of steel scrap or something. So a lot of the reasons for a Cummins start to go out the window. Sure if I had a huge horse trailer I took everywhere, but for daily driving an empty bed? I think a 390 would put a much bigger smile on my face, and it seems properly adjusted they can get decent mileage (I'm happy with about 15 in town and 20 highway for this truck, transmission options are going to be a big part of that). Parts seem easier to find and I know Ford V8's a lot better than Cummins'. Plus, it's keeping a Ford engine in it and a V8. I know it sounds silly but it bothered me to love that V8 emblem on the grille and to think about an in-line 6 under the hood. I'm a V8 gas guy. Heck, even having fill-ups be more of a chore probably would have had me driving less, I want to drive this truck as much as possible.

The T56 is probably a little ways away, they aren't cheap but I think having two OD gears will make the truck a lot more useful and see a lot more of my driving time. I may go with a NV4500 5 speed, but it seems at that point I might as well commit and go all the way.


I am thinking since from what I've seen the 390 is an easy swap in a 56 (If you've done it I would love to hear about it), that I will find a decent one and swap it in my truck at the moment, I should be able to keep the gas tank and what not that's stock (correct me if I'm wrong), so the swap isn't as big of a deal as a Cummins, not to mention I shouldn't have to notch anything to make it fit. The 272 in it is just not going to be taking it anywhere right now and I miss driving it something fierce. Then when I have the money swap in the 4x4 axles and a divorced transfer case, then the T56. Being geared at 5.83 is going to limit it at the moment, but I recon it will be a whole lot more drivable than sitting leaking on the road, lol. The 390 seems to be a much cheaper route, granite a build up engine is going to cost me about the same as a good deal on a Cummins, but I bet I could find a decent engine that gave me 20,000 miles for $200 if I looked hard enough. (Which gives a lot of time to build up another one, and since the first one was cheap, it's not as big of a deal if I where to want to do that with a Cummins, not the same investment, not as stressful either)



Thoughts? Anyone see any potential problems? If you've swapped a 390 in your truck I'd love to hear about it, from what I've come across it's mainly just a kit that's needed.

 

Is the 390 going in that 56 red truck? If so as I know i call it a direct
replacement with no modification except others may correct me, I think
you will have to use exhaust manifolds that dump in the middle, and
the front motor mount and the bellhousing from FT engines. I have
done all of mine all over the counter stuff like Y pipes. The only thing I
did have to do is disect my fan shroud and lower it 3" cause its hard to
find a high mount fan, and make up a lower radiator hose from Napa.
There should be a photo somewhere in my gargage of this in a 1953,
fits like it belongs there. I got two diesels Ford backhoe, TD 15 dozer
$50 of diesel doesnt even move the fuel gauge thank goodness my loader
is a gas job that alway starts and is quiet thats my opinion. Then comes
snow time- do the math $4 a gal. for diesel and I gotta plug it in and
watch the electric meter spin like $1hr for electric. Nother example,
I checked this yesterday for another guy my 1953 in 5th OD axle in Hi
range does exactly 1500 rpms at 50 mph, then I checked my 97 F350
351 gas exactly the same as the dump truck 1500 @50. I swear my
dump truck is better on mpg than my pickup. However on the big scale
I think the most impressive truck I ever ran was a LN9000 with a 3406
Cat 7speed Spicer to bad It got destroyed.

 

I have a 57 F600 with a 390 in it with a 5spd/2spd rear. I used the front mts and bellhousing from a FT specifically a 70 F600 330 md . The MD 330 flywheel will work on a 390 FE. As far as exhaust manifolds I used car log style to begin with , later on switched to headers from a later model pickup I think it was a 74 or 75 2wd. This is almost a bolt in swap with the right parts. The factory radiator and shroud worked out fine , never a problem with overheating. If you have any questions let me know.


Have A Great Day ------ Hotwrench

 

I have mid seventies 360 motor rebuilt to a 390 and a C-6 in my 56 1/2 ton.

It was pretty much a bolt in with the motor mount and tranny mount kits.

Of course the drive shaft needed to be shortened.

Still have the 2Bl carb, however one of these days maybe a different intake when I have the $$s

 

Is an FT bell housing needed?

Any exhaust issues to be aware of?

Thanks

 

I cant see you getting anywhere nears the fuel economy you are hoping for. With a truck that size, with a gas motor, i think your more realistically looking at 12-maybe 15 on the highway.


Although I still think a cummins is the best solution for you (better economy, way better for "working" it, uniqeness cool factor, more power), a 390 is a great motor! Probably a little cheaper, in stock form.


Cummins are ridiculously easy to modify to get high reliable power, and not that costly. They really are a good tuneable diesel engine.

 

I dunno, AXracer mentioned seeing 26 with a 400 4 BBL SB with a Tremec T56 6speed and 3.70 gearing, which makes me think a lot of what I want to accomplish has to do with the transmission choice. I think I would need at least a 5 speed, but the T56 having two OD gears should really help improve things on the high way.

I think part of my problem with the Cummins is, I don't think I really like diesel. I live on a busy street corner in a truck town, someone is always driving by 24/7, I can pick up the sound of a diesel from up to a mile away and to be honest, I don't like the sound and I don't like the (ok, this is going to sound hokey) I don't like the wavelenght of the sound it produces. It's too base but not like in a big-block gasser way, it just has a way of vibrating in my head and going through all the walls. Sounds hokey I know, but after a decade of listening to it I guess I've grown susceptible to it.

The 390 has just seemed right to me for a while. I'm not sure why, there are a lot of other good engines out there, bigger ones, ones with better mileage, yet something about my truck to me feels like a 390 is what should be in it. Maybe with an awesome tripple-douce under the hood (yeah I know 6v isn't going to help much in economy, but it's a cool factor).

I've seen people get 20mpg out of them without OD (to my knowledge), what the lost in power to do it I'm not sure. I'm not being too obsessive with the numbers anymore, but I want something that will get decent mileage so I will actually take it somewhere. Diesel is still a hassel, and it's not like I can't change it out later (Planning divorced transfer case, so it should be easier to do so if it comes up) and this way I won't be out thousands but rather hundreds, the investment is a lot less. A lot. Which keeps things from being too big of a deal and more fun.

It's not that I don't think the Cummins is a good engine, I just think there are some little things that don't seem so little to me.

 

I had two Camaro Z28's in the past; a '94 with the 4L60-E OD auto and a '97 with the T56. Both were stock 5.7's in good shape and as I recall had 3.42 gears. Cruising on flat interstates in Iowa and Nebraska at 70 (about 1800 RPM) I never saw much more than 25 mpg in either of them, across 4 or 5 tankfuls. That's in a fuel injected car with a frontal area probably 1/4 of any truck, very streamlined. So to expect that kind of mileage with a carb'd 1960's motor in a big truck doesn't seem likely to me.

 

I will put in my 2 cents, I had a 76 F150 2wd 390 4bbl with a t18 and 3 to 1 rear, no matter how I drove it the mpg was right around 13. That being said I loved that truck/ engine combo. Maybe with an OD it would have gained 2 to 3 mpg. Just a suggestion why not put the 390 with a c6 for now and later just add an overdrive like a gear vendors?

Good Luck
Paul

 

I found a guy not too far from me with a 460 and C6 from a 1969 Lincoln Continental with 10 miles on a rebuild. He just pulled it from a wrecked 1969 Lincoln Continental (how much does that suck, 10 miles on a rebuild = wrecked it the first time out). I think I might just screw the gas mileage and go for the ridiculous amount of power. All depends on what he wants for it I suppose, has a 390 with a 4 speed for $350, most his prices have been pretty awesome in all reality, so maybe I'll luck out and get it at an awesome price.



I figure in all reality I've given too much weight to the gas mileage issue. I'm sure there are things that can be done, but at what cost? At what point does something actually start to pay for itself?

For example, right now gas prices are around $3.00 a gallon. If I get 10 mpg and drive 10,000 miles a year, that's $3000 in gas. If I get 15mpg, that's $2000. If 20, $1500 and so on. So yeah, obviously twice as much for gas at 10mpg than 20, but these are just numbers without any real life variables. How about how many miles would be on the free way and not in town? Or for that matter, how much I actually drive? I don't do 10,000 in a year. Way I sorta look at it is, is it worth $500 a year to have that much more fun?

And the answer is yes. It's worth the extra money for gas to hear that engine and feel it. Nothing beats a big block. Now granite I probably will put a T56 behind it when I have the money and it will pay for itself after a while, but I think having the extra gears will just be fun behind a big block.




Alright, so who's got a 460 in their truck then?

 

Thats always the tough thing about giving opinions eh!

What works for you wont work for me, and will kinda work for the next guy, but kinda not work for the guy after that!

460 is a good motor as well as the 390. I have one in an old truck I was planning on using the engine for a huge stroker build, but its kinda been on the back burner as I have nothing I want to put that motor into!

I would expect a 390 and 460 to get similar mileage.

For the few miles you actually put on in a year, i can kinda see why ya are thinking the way your thinking now too.

 

If you want to use a truck type of trans a FT bellhousing will be a bolt in. If you decide to use a 460 you can use the bell and front mt from a 370/429 Hd truck engine. Exhaust should be no problem, on my 57F600 i used car log manifolds on my 390 then later installed headers.



Have A Great Day ------ Hotwrench

 

Go with the 460. The entire design of the engine is more modern than the old FE's, they're lighter, and they can be tuned to get better fuel economy. The FE's like gas. They like it a lot. I would be extremely surprised to see a 4x4 truck the size and height of yours with a 390 to ever see anything above 12 MPG - downhill with a tailwind!

 

The 460 will get at least as good mileage. The 460 is a very good engine, at least as good as the 390 and weighs quite a bit less.

Paul

 

I always find it interesting when a larger cubic inch engine ways less lol, that's for the advise, I think the 460 is the way to go, especially one from 1969 before they where dumbed way down